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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dora Rodríguez's Notebook Description An account of the resource Notebook of Dora Rodríguez used as a personal record-keeping system to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships. Among the redacted information the letter "A" is frequently visible and precedes a number that identifies an individual detainee. "A-Numbers" are used to track detainees over the duration of their incarceration and beyond. Dora Rodríguez has made notes about each of the people she has assisted including their family connections, bond status, sponsorship and deportation. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-SA Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR_DN_0041 DTD_DR_DN_0042 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Dora Rodríguez DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. Notebook Correspondence Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. ca. 2019 - 2020 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Letters and Art from A. A. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource A. A. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR_AA Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/9b5b93e8020282f8945552c35e437b30.pdf 568777b8a9deece94ee1f6e085e9d69d PDF Text Text DETAINED Archive Finding Aid Dora Rodríguez Solidarity Papers DTD_DR Title: Repository: Creators: Dates: Language: Dora Rodríguez Solidarity Papers DETAINED Digital Archive https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/ Dora Rodríguez Detainees 2019 - 2020 English Spanish Historical and Biographical Notes: Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to people detained in Arizona. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping systems to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships. After the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. Access and Restrictions: Collection only available online. Personally identifying information of detainees is redacted. Copyright: CC BY-NC-SA. Creative Commons (CC) Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike– This license lets others remix, adapt, and build upon your work non-commercially, as long as they credit you and license their new creations under the identical terms. Audience: students, researchers, historians, advocates, community organizations. Item types: Text, Still image, Physical Object Subjects: No More Deaths, Keep Tucson Together Florence Project Central Arizona Florence Correctional Center Eloy Detention Center �Geographic coverage: United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma 1. Notebook (2019 - 2020) Scope and contents: Personal record-keeping notebook. Item list: 1. DTD_DR_NB 2. Correspondences (2019 - 2020) Scope and contents: Personal correspondences, art (graphite pencil, colored pencil), pen, crafts. Item list: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. DTD_DR_W DTD_DR_LP DTD_DR_ER DTD_DR_EA DTD_DR_AA DTD_DR_NH DTD_DR_JV � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Dora Rodríguez DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. Notebook Correspondence Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. ca. 2019 - 2020 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dora Rodríguez Solidarity Papers Finding Aid Description An account of the resource Finding aid for Dora Rodríguez Solidarity Papers with historical and biographical notes, item list. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Public Domain Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/55b2f4d5d462d2d0ff9de115d317f118.jpg 08d3d27f0121e2249002f67f72196a70 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Dora Rodríguez DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. Notebook Correspondence Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. ca. 2019 - 2020 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Nicaragua, tierra de lagos de volcanes" Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource E. A. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez La Palma Correctional Center Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR_EA_0004 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/55da4fdde10cf67319ceb6eb99e3d966.jpg 941c7d5ac06682b90cb5d3c4d1a2be1d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Dora Rodríguez DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. Notebook Correspondence Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. ca. 2019 - 2020 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence and Art from E. R. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Solidarity Papers of Dora Rodríguez Subject The topic of the resource Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Bail--Law and legislation Pro bono publico legal services Description An account of the resource Initially working with Keep Tucson Together and The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project, Dora Rodríguez began volunteering her personal time to provide legal aid to detained immigrants in 2019. Going to detention centers to get information on detainees’ needs, bail amounts, and offer legal support, Dora’s number “spread like wildfire.” With a growing number of correspondents – approximately 100 people – Dora began personal record-keeping to keep track of her communications, financial support sent for bail and commissary, and sponsorships, which is required for individuals to be released. After the onset of the 2020 Covid-19 pandemic, Dora continued her services by phone from her home. This collection includes her personal record-keeping notebook, correspondences, and art. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora Rodríguez Detainees Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Dora Rodríguez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 2019 - 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">CC BY-NC-SA</a> Language A language of the resource English Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Text Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- La Palma Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Dora Rodríguez DETAINED Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. Notebook Correspondence Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. ca. 2019 - 2020 Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Title A name given to the resource Correspondence with JV Language A language of the resource Spanish Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_DR_JV_0006 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/5adad109fff7625153393aabfba0a979.mp3 e16e94babde4427418a2a30a7bcd436e https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/e36b2332159bdf7810d13624fda0dac8.pdf 183ca5f0f4ab55c44d2a2239ce581085 PDF Text Text Daniel: Okay I think we're all on the phone now. Afshin, are you there? Afshin: Yes. Daniel: Okay, so it's me, Daniel, and my colleague from the Florence Project, Greer Millard, she's here too. Greer: Hi, Afshin. How are you? Afshin: Hi, I am good. How are you, too? Greer: Good. Thank you. Daniel: Then our colleague and our partner in this project, Susan Briante. She's a writer and a professor at the University of Arizona. Susan: Hi. How are you? Greer: Hi, I'm good. How are you, too? Daniel: Once again, I just want to thank you for agreeing to be a part of this project. I just want to one more time explain a little bit about what we're doing and get your permission to proceed. We're going to record our interview, and this is going to be included in an archive of interviews with people who went through immigration detention. It's called the DETAINED Project. For this project, we will edit out your name, so it'll be anonymous. [Note: Afshin later requested his name be included in this interview]. Otherwise, we just like to discuss the circumstances that you endured when you were detained by ICE, but also a little bit about what happened before and a little bit about what happened after, as in, since you've won your freedom. Does that sound okay? Afshin: Yes. Daniel: Wonderful. Greer is going to lead the interview because you and I already spoke and then I might ask a couple of follow-up questions here and there but generally, we just want to hear you talk, but I'll hand it off to Greer from here. Greer: Awesome. Thanks, Daniel. Afshin, could you tell us a little bit about your life in Iran before you left to come to the US? Afshin: Yes, I was a student. I studied mechanical engineering in Shiraz Azad University. I was living in the Shiraz city. I lived in Iran since May of 2019 and I left Iran when I was 21. Greer: Very good. Could you tell us maybe a little bit about, if you feel comfortable, about why you left Iran? Afshin: During my university, I gave a lecture about the government in the university for two times. I had discussion there in the university and I talked against the government. 1 �Also, I was participant there with opposition groups, and I was in contact with them, and when the government figured out that I made contact with the opposition group and also for two times I talk against the government, I left the country before they charge me for prison and I left to save my life. Greer: Got it. Thank you. When you left, how did you come to the US? Did you go through other countries on your way to the US? Afshin: Yes, between Iran and US I've been in 11 other countries. It takes about two years just before I arrive to US from Iran. I live in Ecuador. I've been in Ecuador for about 18 months and also in Colombia for about 10 months. Greer: Wow, so you were in South America for a while. Afshin: For about two years, yes. Greer: What was that like? Afshin: What? Greer: Go ahead, Daniel. Daniel: We were just wanting to hear a little bit more about what it was like to live in Ecuador and Colombia. I know that you had mentioned to me at a different time that you tried to seek asylum. You didn't know you were going to try to come to the US. You were trying to settle down in other countries, but it didn't work out, right? Afshin: That's right. Yes, actually, the reason I came to the South America is Bartlett brought me here. They brought me here to send me to the Canada but they didn't do their job and I sat in the Latin America, and that's the reason why I came to South America first and then a lot of things happen actually and I tried to seek for asylum in Ecuador but because I request late for that, they reject my request actually. Then in January of 2021, I left Ecuador and I went to the Colombia but at the beginning, in Colombia, they give me the expulsion, that I have to left country. I try to cancel the expulsion by help of the UNHCR but that didn't work and I couldn't stay anymore in Colombia. Greer: After you left Colombia, is that when you decided to come towards the US? Afshin: Yes. Daniel: Was it difficult to live in Latin America for you, as an Iranian? Afshin: It was super difficult, actually. First I didn't have any legal status. Second, I had language problems for Spanish. Then, Latin America, it's almost dangerous to live, especially alone and as a young person and most of the time I spent alone in my rooms. I don't want to remember that either. 2 �Greer: Okay. Can you tell us about what happened when you reach the US border? Afshin: Yes, one second. Greer: Of course. Afshin: Sorry. Greer: No, no worries. [pause ] Afshin: Yes, in February 15th, the smuggler from Mexico, who brought me to the US border, I had been a part of about between 20 to 30 persons from different nations. We arrived to the, I think, San Luis Rio Colorado, I don't remember the exact name, but it was a city close to the Yuma. I arrived about, it was an afternoon. I remember I was the first person of the group, we walked there, and the Border Patrol they were beside the wall. I went there and he asked me first, it was really normal, and he asked me, "Where are you from?" And I say, Iran, but he said, "Iraq?" No, I said Iran and behind Iraq. He said, "Iran?" Yes, and when he heard about Iran and he changed completely actually. His behavior and he became very serious and angry and he told me, "Sit there," F word, I can't say that, in there beside the wall and so seriously. I went tried to sit again, he said that and shouting, "Sit the F in there." I was shocked why he behaved like that with me. After a few minutes, I can see other people they arrived and they have been inside the bus for a few minutes, they identification us and asked for our documents. Then they sent us by bus to the, I don't know exactly where is that but that was like a Border Patrol or something like detention in Yuma. Daniel: What was the facility like? What was the building like that you entered and that you were held in? Afshin: I don't know how to describe that. That wasn't like facility, actually, that was like detention center. First three days, I don't know, can you imagine a military base? It was something like that actually. Daniel: Sure. Greer: Yes. Afshin: Outside of that, about three, four something like the camps, but the big, what's the name? Big way or tent. We arrived there was about night, after the sunset, and it was so windy and cold and they just gave us a emergency blanket, that was something like aluminum. At the beginning, they check all our bodies and all our stuffs, and still have our clothes. They threw all our belongings, our bags, our extra clothes, everything, they just give us some plastic for the documents and some, how can I say, something that our 3 �phones are charged with. They throw all our stuffs and then we wait there for a few hours and it was super cold actually outside. After a few hours, they call us, we enter the building. There were 40-50 person. They start to check something like health check. Then they start to get the fingerprints and our identifications, asking the questions and stuffs. When I was seated, an officer working there, he start talking with me something in Spanish and at that time I just hear the manos, the hand in Spanish and I didn't exactly know what to say. I ask him, "What?", He repeat, "Take your hands out of your pocket." I did it and then he asked me, "Where are you from?" I said, "Iran." He looked at me and said, "Do you have a problem with me?" I was shocked, why do you ask that now? Again, I said, "What?" He said, "Do you have a problem with me?" I said, "No." Then he went and he talked with an officer who took my identification, this stuff. He asked for my folder. He brought me back my folder and he asked from the person who was beside me, "Are you together?" He said, “Stop,” and then he left there. I'm just sitting, I don't know why he did that and why he said that, "Do you have a problem with me?" Yes, after that, we're sent back to the yard, beside the canvas, and we went there about three days. In that three days, we even couldn't wash our hands and that was in the canvas and without anything. I was super cold and hot. At the I think second day a person called me, he start to interrogated me, asking questions and stuff and in the third days they sent us inside the building, something like rooms, and I have been there until February 20th. That makes 2 days. Greer: When you were there, did they give you food and water? Afshin: Yes, three times a day they gave us sandwiches and I think some fruits and baklava. Susan: You were outside, is that what you were saying for the first part of that before they brought you into a room outside? When you were outside you just had aluminum blankets, is that right? Afshin: Exactly. [silence] Greer: Were you allowed to call anyone or contact anyone, or no? Afshin: No. Greer: After you left there, is that when you went to detention? Afshin: Yes. Greer: To the ICE center? 4 �Afshin: Yes, in February 20th after I left there, I went to the Eloy Detention Center. And then also one thing in the Yuma that again happens to me. At the fourth day, again, they called me and they ask for a sponsor and in that time I couldn't provide any sponsor information to them. The officer asked me again. He said, "Where are you from?" I said, "Iran." First, the two officers they laughed and then he barks at me and he say, "If you don't have a sponsor, why you came to the US?" I said, I have a sponsor but right now I don't have his information. He asked me, "Are you a terrorist?" I was shocked, why he tell me that? Everybody who do not have a sponsor is a terrorist? Yes, the things happen, I mean, the humor. Daniel: I'm sorry that you had to experience that. It must have been really upsetting. Afshin: Yes. Daniel: Can you tell us now about the experience of being in the Eloy Detention Center, how you endured the difficulty of being held there and your feelings then about your case and your situation? Afshin: In February 20th was early morning before the sunrise. Me and, I think, four other people, they took us to a van and they had about three hours driving to Eloy Detention Center. At the beginning, we went to the intake. They gave us the uniforms and they took our blinding and then we went to the cells. We stay about 14 days in a cell for intakes or basic quarantine. What type of details you want to know, actually? Greer: What was your impression when you first got there? Afshin: Actually, I didn't shocked because I know that this is part of the process and I wasn't shocked. Greer: You knew this would happen. Afshin: Yes, I already have information that was made and what would happen and how is the process in the US. Greer: Got it. Can you tell us what your cell was like, what the food was like, that kind of thing? Afshin: For food, at the beginning, wasn't that bad actually. I was in detention many different countries. In Ecuador, Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico and compared to other countries food was good, actually. There was a cycle for food. Every five days they change the food and they become the same every five days. After the first month, life become harder with the same food, but totally wasn't that bad. Can't say they're actually bad. Greer: What about the guard, the people that worked there? How were they? How did they treat you? 5 �Afshin: I can say there are two type of people in there. Some neutral people, they behave neutrally and some, how can I say, they're bad officers. They try to force you and use their power. We can say these two type of officers, actually. Daniel: What was your dynamic with the other people who were there? Were you able to communicate much? Because I know that a lot of them probably didn't speak English, right? Afshin: You meant other detainees? Daniel: Yes. Afshin: For 14 days in quarantine, all the time we are in quarantine, and only for 30 minutes we can leave going to the toilet and then again back to the cells. All the time we are like that. My cellmate was a guy from Russia and couldn't speak English and I couldn't speak Russian. For 40 days we just lived with each other without saying anything. After the quarantine, I went to the general population, GP. Actually, I talked with everybody there. The Latinos, I speak with them in Spanish, and they were two other Iranian. I speak in Farsi and also [inaudible] and they're from India, and we speak English. For me that was okay and I could communicate almost to everybody there. Daniel: Did you get along with everybody? Afshin: Getting what? Daniel: Was everybody nice to you? Afshin: Yes. Actually, during six and a half months we had a very good relationship and friendship and never I didn't see any problems, or I didn't find any problems with other detainees. Actually, my only problems were officers. Susan: It sounds like you experienced, at least until you got there, a lot of prejudice because you were Iranian from the guards. Did you find that same experience repeated in Eloy? Afshin: In Eloy, there is no identification. They can't know that where we are from, they just have our names and our A number, they can't figure out. Based on that, they can't treat us because our nationality or something. Actually, one day one of the officer asked me, "Are you the ICE eyes?" “No,” I say, “what are you talking about?” He say, "You speak several languages and you are in contact with everybody here and I sent some people like you in detentions to something like spying, getting information. I said, "I don't know what you are talking about." Daniel: Like a secret shopper or something. 6 �Afshin: What? Daniel: It's like what they call a secret shopper when a store send a… Afshin: Exactly. The ICE agent in the detention center to figure out how CoreCivic is working. Daniel: If only, right? Greer: Yes. Afshin: He asked me about that, "Are you?” And I was like, “I don't know what you’re talking about.” Daniel: Were you able to access books or were you able to find some way to pass the time when you were…It must have been so boring, right? Afshin: Actually, it's super boring, but I only have access to the English and Spanish books and some other language. I didn't have any Farsi books beside Bible. For first two or three months, actually, I read a lot of books and I passed my times like that. After that, I started reading Bible and I asked Bible from the chaplain, and he brought me a Bible in Farsi. Yes, I had access to the books. Daniel: That's good. Greer, do you think we could transition to the case, right? Greer: Yes, absolutely. Do you… Daniel: You're… Greer: Oh, go ahead, Daniel. Daniel: No sorry. You go ahead. Greer: Sorry. Can you tell us just a little bit about your case, about meeting your lawyers, about going to court? How was that? Afshin: Can you ask me more clearly and part by part? Greer: Of course. Sorry. What was it like when you went to court for the first time? Afshin: I don't know how to explain. What exactly do you want to know about my court for the first time? Daniel: You knew you needed to win asylum, right? Did you try to work on your case by yourself or how did you connect with the Florence Project? Afshin: Oh, okay. Yes, I know that will be part of the process. We have to fight for our case in detention. I already know about that. For the first time I hear about Florence 7 �Project from my friends, the other Iranian people in there. I call them and someone who, Daniela I think, told me something. I talked with her and I tell her my friends will send you some evidences and send with them and also I ask for a lawyer from her. She send me the evidences for my case and also she interpreted some of them. For the lawyer, first, she said it may takes time and it depend on my chance if someone accept my case or not. From February to April 21 st, I think, I didn't have any lawyer until the one week before my court and the law team came to accept my case. In my first court, April 28th, that didn't take that long, and I think a few minutes. I went in the court with Rachel. I received my NT forms and some forms and Rachel asked for next hearing. She asked for a time to submit my form I-589 from the judge. Daniel: Can you tell us a little bit about how that all ended? Do you have a vivid memory of the last court appearance when you won your case? Afshin: Yes, my last courts happens in two hearings in August 23rd and August 24th. In August 23rd, it takes about three or four hours. My witnesses and experts, they came and the district attorney start to asking me questions, and the court didn't finish in August 23rd. For the next day, August 24th was continuing of the court and that didn't take that long, about maybe 30 minutes. Rachel asked me some questions, and then I think she talked about our arguments, and then judge gave his decision. Daniel: How was that? Did you think you were going to win? Afshin: Before the final court I believe I was anxious and actually, I remember last two or three days before final court I even couldn't eat the food. During the first final court, actually, everything goes great, really good. My witness gave a really good sermons, my expert also, and everything goes well and I become sure that I'm going to win this case. I remember the second day, before the court, Rachel asked me, "How's your feeling?" And just say, "I'm just excited and let's go finish it." Yes, in the second day, I know that I'm going to win the case. Greer: Can you describe what it felt like when you got to leave the detention center? Afshin: Two days after my final court, in Friday, I guess on 6th in early morning, they called me. They took me to the south intake, and I waited there for a few hours, and I changed my clothes and they did some paper working and then I went to the bus, and they left us in welcome center, the tents. Daniel: Can you tell us a little bit about the people you met that you ended up moving to live with or your sponsors? Afshin: Actually, they are not my sponsors. They're my friends. Daniel: Right. Sorry. Afshin: What do you want to know about them? 8 �Daniel: I guess just a little bit about how you connected with people, your new community. Afshin: Mostly they are from my church and where I connected my pastor in Colombia, who lives here. Most of the people before I came here, actually, they already know me and they pray for me and they know about my process. Before I came actually they knows me and it was easy for me to join the community and start a new life, but this place it's hard because I haven't received my forms from USCIS yet, and I almost can't do anything. Susan: You still can't work yet? Is that what you mean when you say you don't have your forms from ICE? Afshin: Exactly. I don't have my social security number and employee authorization yet. Susan: Do they let you know when you might get it? Afshin: Actually, in August 30th, I called to USCIS situation. They say in next 30 business days, we call you back and we'll give you an appointment. They haven't called me back yet until last Thursday. I called them back and I asked them, but they say, "You are sitting in the queue." I asked, "How long will it take?" They say, "I don't know" and I don't know how long will it take. Susan: That must be terribly frustrating. Afshin: It is, yes. Besides that, because I don't have my social security number and I can't get any type of benefits like Medicaid and also, I'm in contact with some organization like Board Relief and they can't, how can I say, support me until I get my documents. It's frustrating. Greer: Yes, that sounds very frustrating. I'm sorry that you're experiencing that. What is a typical day like for you right now? Afshin: These days actually I'm reading for GED. Greer: Oh, wonderful. Afshin: I have to start from beginning actually and by practicing the program I spend my days with this and also going make new friends and different meetings. Greer: Have you been able to meet new people and make new friends in your community? Afshin: Oh, a lot. Greer: Oh good. That's wonderful. Afshin: Yes. Daniel: How do you like it there? North Carolina, is that where you are? 9 �Afshin: Yes, I'm in North Carolina. I think it's okay. Daniel: What do you think about the climate and the city or whatever? Afshin: The climate, it's four season, same as Iran. Finally, I see big fall, the trees become yellow because in South America all the time it's spring actually. There is no season. I like here actually but the only bad thing is there are a lot of trees, you can't see the sky. Daniel: You should come back to Arizona then. There's no trees. Greer: We've got lots of sky here. [laughter] Afshin: A lot of sky. Yes. Susan: But we don't have four seasons. Afshin: Actually, I like Arizona. I like how it’s hot and dry. Daniel: You like Arizona, is that what you said? Afshin: Yes. I would like one day. Daniel: Yes, I like it. [Pause] Well, is there anything that you think we should know about the experience that you went through on your way to flee Iran and win asylum in the US? Afshin: Actually, it was three years with a lot of experiences and a lot of different stuff. I don't know what you like to know more of this. If there's any questions you can ask me… Greer: I was going to ask you, is there anything that has surprised you about your life in the US so far? Anything that surprised you about the US? Afshin: The first thing surprised me was in the Yuma why they treated me like that. The second thing was in the Eloy Detention Center. Again, why officers they treat us like that? We are refugees and there is no criminal in this detention center. Why they treat us like criminals? As I told you, all of that problem with the officers, not with the detainees or something. I wonder why they think that. They know we are not dangerous, they know we are not criminals, we're just migrants and refugees. I was wondering why in US, in a country who talk about the human right and that's where they treat us like that. Also, another thing is that I didn't have a sponsor, but I have a lot of friends here. They put us in welcome center and they say, okay, go. All right, if I didn't have these people where I have to go, and how they have to support me? What I have to do? Also in welcome center, they said I have to leave in two days and it's really frustrating. I was imagining what if I didn't have these people to support me or there are a lot of people who have 10 �nobody in the US but they're refugees and they need help. There is what they have to do. It takes about one months for me just to be in contact with the human right organizations and the process here without any documents right now in the US if something happens to me, what I have to say, I think the system is horrible but my guess, yes. Daniel: That all sounds right to us, right? Greer: Yes, it does. Thank you for sharing that. That does sound right to us. Susan, were you going to ask something? Susan: I was just going to ask, I think you were in detention during COVID is that right? I didn't know if there was anything around, if you were checked for COVID, if you felt you were safe for COVID that you wanted to mention. Afshin: First let me ask from in intake, they ask if I have the COVID vaccines or no, I had and I didn't need to vaccinate it again. I think two or three days after we entered the detention center, they took us to the medical and they scan our lung and also in detention center all the time we have to wear mask and we are leaving our pod and there were some good protection from COVID. Susan: Thank you. Did you have any other health concerns? Do you feel like they were taking care of you or other detainees in terms of health issues? Afshin: Thankfully, the only time I went to the medical was for the first two, three days and then I didn't use any medical or medicine or anything in detention, Eloy. For other detainees, my cellmate actually, he used a lot of medicines because I would see he had a lot problems. He received his medicines. Actually, I don't have that much information, because I didn't use the services. I think it wasn't that bad. If I want to compare to other detentions in other countries actually was great. In Mexico, I went there about 14 days in detention and after day three or four I start using medicines for my stomach and the cell stuff. Susan: Thank you for answering. Daniel: Wow. Do you still keep in touch with people that you met when you're in detention? Afshin: With one of them. Daniel: Yes. Afshin: Yes. Daniel: Did you see people get deported when you were there? 11 �Afshin: Actually, I was in fear that last six months as I was the only person granted asylum and most often, they were deported. I see a lot of persons deported. Daniel: Wow, Susan: Yes. Daniel: That's really-Afshin: That's right, the other three Iranians, they were all deported back home. Daniel: Have you been able to reach them via email or anything? Afshin: Yes, I say that's one of them. I'm in contact with him. I have a very good friendship, yes. Daniel: Have you been following the situation in Iran very carefully? Afshin: Yes, these days there were some problems. Daniel: Well, in order to maybe try to leave this on a lighter note. I'm sure this has been difficult for you to remember some of this stuff. Do you want to just tell us what your plans are for the weekend? Afshin: My plans for this weekend? Daniel: Yes. Afshin: Weekends, you mean Saturday or Sunday? Daniel: Both. Afshin: For Saturday I will be free. For Sunday I'll be very busy until the next week. Daniel: Yes, busy days. Afshin: That's right. For the next weekend's Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I'll be in the trip, going for a lake. Daniel: That will be fun. Afshin: Yes. For this Saturday I will be free. Daniel: Are you going to celebrate Halloween next week? Afshin: I said next week I will be going on a trip for three days. Daniel: Right. 12 �Afshin: Probably Halloween. Correct. Yes. Daniel: Sounds good. Afshin: Yes. Greer: Thank you. Daniel: Thank you. Greer: I was going to say thank you so much for chatting with us and for sharing about your experiences with us. We really appreciate it. Afshin: Sure, you're welcome. 13 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Afshin Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Iran Latin America Description An account of the resource In this interview, Afshin reflects on fleeing Iran after being targeted as a supporter of the political opposition. He shares the hardship and lonelines of being displaced in Latin America, and experiencing bigotry from Border Patrol at the U.S. border. He reflects on detention, winning asylum, and dreams for the future. Subject The topic of the resource Iran--Politics and government Political refugees Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_010 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/746ca61289327f93bc935c0aeefa1322.mp3 28e182af4e4594f72ed692026ace0fed https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/955beac084a83ee155274ffa4eb1600a.pdf aafe999d0a42e2b0d5f73f1e3ec2c0c6 PDF Text Text Susan: I did mention to Perla that there's a couple of us in the line, who we want to introduce ourselves. We'll start with my Florence Project colleague. Daniel: Sure. Hey, Perla. This is Daniel, we've spoken before, I'm the one that called you I think it was about a year and a half ago for our pride month [unintelligible] Great to reconnect with you. Sorry, it took so long. Perla: That's okay. [chuckles] Daniel: David, how about you next? David: Hi, Perla. This is David Taylor. Perla: Hi. David: I'm a faculty at the University of Arizona in the School of Art. I've been working on this project with a group of colleagues, all of whom are here on the phone, and then other folks from the U of A as well. Perla: All right. Susan: Hi, Perla. My name is Susan. I also work with David at the University of Arizona on this project. I teach in the English and creative writing department. We're just really pleased that you were able to take time out of your schedule to talk to us today. Perla: No problem. Susan: I think I'm going to be the lead interviewer on this phone call but as my other colleagues have questions, they'll jump in. Please, if there's anything that you don't feel like answering, you don't need to answer. I'll say a little bit about the project. Although I'm sure Astrid and Daniel have talked about it. We're recording the oral narratives and testimony or stories from the migrants who've been detained. We want to collect these and make them accessible to the general public, to other journalists, to researchers. We, again, really appreciate your contribution to the project. Perla: No problem. Susan: I just wanted to reestablish that you're doing this of your own free will that you consent to participate and you know thatPerla: Yes. Susan: -this is being recorded. Well, thank you. Perla: Likewise. Susan: Do you want to tell us a little bit about how you ended up in detention, whether it was a situation that you'd already been living here? �Perla: (2:35 – description of circumstances leading to detainment) I've been in the United States pretty much all my life. I came to the United States when I was a few weeks old. I was born in Mexico, and my parents brought me over here. I grew up here in the United States and I had moved to Arizona with my wife because I got a good job offer out there so it was just time for me and her to go ahead and focus on us since our kids were already grown and doing their lives. My wife has MS so we would go to Nogales, Sonora to get her medication since it was a lot cheaper out there than what it is here in the United States. [unintelligible] They were having some kind of- like a fair or something like that for I forgot what occasion it was. Oh, it was for the Day of the Dead. We figured we'd go get some food and souvenirs because at that time, I was collecting the sugar skulls We went to the fair and figured I could get a haircut while I'm out there because, of course, a haircut-- Everything else is a lot cheaper in Mexico. Once in the barber shop and I was sitting getting my hair cut and my wife was outside having a cigarette. I noticed she was talking to somebody and so I text her real quick and she said, "Well, it's just some guy asking for some money." She had given him a few dollars, whatever it is that he had with her and he I guess wanted some more and she was like, "I don't have anymore," because I was the one who's holding our money anyways. When I was finally done with the haircut-- Before I was done with the haircut, I guess he got upset because she wouldn't give him no more money. He ended up snatching her wallet and pretty much ran across the street, took a picture with his cell phone of her ID, and when I came out, she just looked at me and pretty much like, "Don't say nothing, we're screwed." Just by the facial expression she was giving me, then I knew something wasn't right. (5:02 - Perla and wife are kidnapped, extorted in Nogales) We ended up walking with him to some nearby park and, there was more guys there that showed up in a white SUV, and pretty much we were, I guess, you want to say, kidnapped. TheySusan: Oh, my gosh. Perla: -pretty much told us we had to come back at this time, meet them at this place, if not, then there would be somebody at my house waiting. What happened, it was a big coincidence. At the time, my daughter and her boyfriend were coming to visit, it was just like, "What the heck? This is going on, our kids are coming to see us?" We had to call the kids like, "No, you guys can't come right now. This is, and that." Of course they questioned why. We just told them, "We'll explain later on," or whatever the heck. We followed them, and they told us to come back, and we went back the next day, and we actually drove our car into Mexico, and they told us to meet us, it was at a IHOP or something like that. There was more gentlemen and pretty much, they took our car and just told us to wait there, and whenever they were ready to come back. We waited a few hours, they came back, not with our car, somebody else had another car, there was one guy driving the car, and he took us to where the car was at. Of course, he's like, "Well, you guys can go now," whatever, this and that. I'm really OCD, so, when I got in the car, the first thing I looked was to see if anything �else was moved or anything was tampered with or anything that, and everything seemed fine and my wife of course, got to the car also, everything looked fine, so let's get the heck out of here, and they were still following us. Susan: This is-Perla: Go ahead. Susan: They brought you back your-- I just want to make sure I understand. They brought you back your car, and it was [unintelligible]. Perla: Right. Susan: Okay. Perla: Yes, everything seemed fine, nothing seemed out of place or messed with, or anything like that. Me and my wife, I told her, "Let's get the freak out of here." We left, we noticed they were, of course, following us to the border. We hit the border, we get to the line, and they took off, whatever way they went. (7:30 - interaction with border patrol) We went through the first inspection, and my wife was talking to the port patrol officer, and he said, "Pop the trunk," whatever, and she popped the trunk and he said, "Okay, cool. You guys are fine." We go and we start driving, maybe not even like a few seconds, then another border patrol officer started hollering, "Illinois." Because our car was registered in Illinois, and we have Illinois plates. They just started hollering and hollering and I'm like, "What the heck?" Then, two of the lady border patrol officer, she told my wife to go to the secondary inspection. We go and we pull off the car and the port patrol comes out and they told us, "Get the fuck out of the car," and just talking to us very rude. I was like, "What's going on? This, this, and that?" They don't want to question us nothing. They ended putting us, I guess, in a holding cell, I was in one, and my wife was in another. Maybe about three or four hours later, they came back and said that there was 55 pounds of meth in the car, and we're like, "What the heck?" I'm like, "How? Where? Because we checked the car, there was nothing, and that's how I ended up going into ICE custody. I'm not US citizen, so of course, they took us in. Before I went to ICE and all that, they, of course, took us to, I guess, the county jail in Arizona, went to court, they released us over recognizance. I just kept going about my business, working and all that stuff, and one morning, I was going to work with my son-in-law and went to go get gas at the nearest gas station by my house. When I was coming out, I heard my name being hollered, and I looked, and there were six ICE officers having their guns pointed at me. I was freaking out. Of course, again, I asked them, "What's going on?" Of course, they just told me to shut the fuck up. I had no reason to question them, this, this, and that. I'm like, "Whatever." (9:54 – Perla is taken to ICE detention) I looked at my son-in-law, I'm like, "Look here, take my wallet, take my cell phone, go home," to tell my wife what was going �on, and before you know it, they were transferring me to ICE detention. I guess they found a way to build a case to pick me up again. Susan: Just so I make sure I have it clear, the timeline of this is, first you have the situation in Nogales, you cross, and you're detained for carrying substances that you didn't know that you had on you, the methamphetamine. Perla: Exactly. Susan: Then they let you go. Perla: Right. Susan: How long ago did this happen? How many years ago was this? Perla: This was back in October 28th, 2019. Susan: At this point then, after they let you go, they don't tell you, "You're going to have to petition ICE," they just let you go and then ICE just shows up? Perla: Right. Yes. Like I said, they gave us- released us on recognizance. They put us on probation, whatever, and like I said, I kept doing what I do, just working home, working home. They ended up picking me up. I guess they found a way to build a case, and take me into ice custody. I was there for almost a whole year. Of course, I hired two lawyers and they never did nothing. All they did was take my money, and pretty much. My wife contacted Florence Project and, what's his name? Gregory Fay, he ended up helping me out. We tried different solutions that he thought would work and didn't end up working out that way. Long story short, I had to file for asylum. I filed for asylum and-Susan: [unintelligible] Perla: Go ahead. Susan: No, go ahead. Perla: had to file for asylum. Of course, prove everything to the judge and explain to them in letters and all this stuff to pretty much prove my innocence that I was pretty much kidnapped, and I had no other choice but to do what they said. Like I said, I was in there for about almost a year. I ended up winning my asylum, and I came back to Chicago with my family and been here pretty much ever since that happened. Susan: Tell us, when you were first in detention, where was the detention center that you were held at? Perla: Eloy Detention Center. �Susan: Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like when you first got there? Do you know how long you were going to be there? Or did they tell you what was happening? Perla: No, not at all. They weren't saying much of nothing. That's why lawyers came in. The lawyers are trying to help us out. The one lawyer that pretty much said, to throw my wife under the bus, that way I can just walk away and not be held there. I'm like, "How am I going to throw her under the bus if neither of us knew what was going on?" We were pretty much set up. (13:32 – description of conditions begins) Like I said, I just filed for asylum and did that, but I think for the first three months, they put me in a maximum security, which was how they-- You're in a blue jumpsuit or whatever you want to call it. They put me there because probably, they thought that I was gang-related because I do have a background of being in a gang when I was younger, this and that. guess they thought I might be some kind of, I don't know what you want to call it, a troublemaker or whatever. Like I said, I spent almost three months in that maximum security, which was terrible because you couldn't be in the yard with nobody else, or you couldn't eat lunch with anybody else. We had to go at a separate time. Of course, everybody else looked down at you because you're maximum security, you're wearing the blue. We're these terrible people were, you know, just pretty much judged on the level we were on. I Like I said, I did three months, ended up going to court [clears throat] in downtown Tucson. They were trying to pick me up again, trying to take me into the penitentiary, the marshals. Of course, my attorney's like, "She did her talking," and of course, the judge agreed with my lawyer at the time and like, "No, you can't." I ended up going back to Eloy. When I got there, I had to do the whole processing back in. They had changed my level into back to green so that's like a lower level. Of course, I asked officers there, I'm like, "What's going on? I was over here." [unintelligible] "Oh, no, this, this, and that. I don't know, I can't tell you what's going on." Just go with it pretty much. Of course, after that, I spent all that time in green at a lower level. It was just terrible. (15:50 – conditions, isolation under COVID) The way they treated people and when the whole pandemic hit, it was bad because there was people that were getting sick, and they were trying to hide it but of course, you put one-on-one together. You see things, you hear things, we talk amongst each other. Before you know it, we would go on a lockdown, on random lockdowns. They wouldn't say why or what. It was just like we never knew when we were coming out. We constantly didn't have our toiletries or we weren't even getting commissary. It was bad. Susan: Did you ever have masks? Were they ever [crosstalk]? Perla: Yes, they gave us masks, but that was already after the fact that so many people were already ill. Once they found out there was COVID, they should give us masks right away and took precautions and they didn't. It was maybe about a few weeks later when they distributed the mask. Of course, I contacted my lawyer and told her about the mask and all that stuff. This, this, and that. �She ended up I guess pretty much suing the warden from Eloy. Tried to get me out because I am asthmatic and of course, I was more prone to catching COVID. Of course, she fought it and did her stuff and told them this, this, and that and pretty much the judge said no. She had it fixed to where I was in the room by myself. I couldn't really talk to nobody. I couldn't sit at the table with nobody to eat or socialize pretty much. Susan: That was their solution. They isolated you? Perla: Yes, they isolated me. I pretty much ate in my room. I did everything in my room. When I showered, nobody could be nowhere near the showers. I guess the correction officer, whatever you want to call it, that was on the o'clock at the time, they were supposed to spray down the shower for me with bleach, this, this and that. That never happened. I pretty much did it on my own. They were supposed to bring me my meals to my to my room. That never happened, but they were real good and keeping pretty much I guess a diary of everything I did, keeping track when I was taking a poop or if I was on the phone or if I was on the microwave, if I was taking a shower if anybody came near me. When I'd make phone calls of course nobody could be near me but it was impossible. You got the phones are-- I think it's like maybe five to six phones next to each other. It's like they're watching me when I make phone calls. Of course, they brought that to my attention like, "Well, you can't." I'm like, "Well then when am I supposed to make a phone call?" I'm like, "You're not gonna sit and deny these other people to making their phone calls or come and let me out at a certain time to use the phone." Pretty much I had to keep up with everything that they were supposed to do but weren't doing and write it down, the time and this, this, and that. Of course when I touched base with my attorney, let her know what was going on and she would, you know, talk to the- whoever was in charge of the whole thing and they're like, "No, that's not true. That's not true. We bring her food, this, this, and that." She's like, "No, I have the times and dates, exactly where she was at, where they were being served lunch or dinner, whatever it was." That was for me to help me get out also. The fact that they weren't doing what they were supposed to, and of course that just-- They got away with it pretty much. Everywhere I went, I had to have an officer come and get me. Nobody could be around me. They had the book, and I was isolated from everybody for a long time. Meanwhile, people are still getting sick and they weren't doing nothing. They started moving us around from one unit to another, to another, this and that. While they were doing that, they were trying to make space to have a whole unit either for the males that had COVID and of course had the women also. They were trying to hide it all. In the units, they had the glass windows and they would cover that with like, I don't know, it was like some clear-- Not clear, like a crystallized plastic where we couldn't see in. You had the officers that would go in there and of course, come back to our unit so you're like, "You're going in there when they're all sick, then you're coming this way," so straight up-- �Susan: Did you-Perla: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Susan: No, no, no. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I was just going to say, did you see any medical personnel going in? Did you see any people-Perla: Yes. They were going in and at first, they were just walking in the way they were dressed. Of course, we all started raising hell like, "Well, how are you guys going to go in there not wearing any kind of PPE or anything, and then coming to the next units and pretty much risk us getting sick?" Of course, they weren't disinfecting, doing nothing like that. It was a freaking nightmare. I would tell the lawyer, "Hey, you know what, so-and-so officer at this time went over there where they're being held, the ones that have COVID and coming over here." Of course, she would use that and use that, and of course, that still wasn't good enough for them. They would always just come up with stories why they were moving us. "Oh, we're going to remodel this unit, so you guys are going to go to the next unit." It was just always a different story and just a nightmare. They would move people that were just there, had COVID and getting over it, and they were mixing them with the rest of the crowd that were not sick. Even though they were just recovering from being sick, you shouldn't put them, I guess, with the crowd that wasn't sick. For us, that was just showing us that they didn't care because they were throwing them in with us knowing that they were just getting better, so of course that just spread and spread and spread and spread. You got two people per room, you're breathing the same air, touching the same stuff and it was just a domino effect. Everybody kept getting sick and sick and sick and sick to the point where there was like the last unit that I was in-- We got moved around so many times, I can't remember how many times, but the last one we were in, we were down to, I think, 20 girls in one unit when originally it holds I think 40 to 60 or whatever it isSusan: Wow. Perla: -because they were all sick and they were getting taken to different units. Like I said, it was a domino effect. They would get sick, send them back, send them back and it's like, "How are you guys going to put them in here if we're not sick?" Susan: Did you ever get sick? Were you able to stay healthy? Perla: Honestly, I think I actually had COVID before they even found out COVID came around because it was, I want to say, maybe January or so, I got real sick. I had cold sweats, running fevers, my throat was hurting, everything. I was down for the count and they wouldn't do nothing but give you a little bit of ibuprofen or whatever it is they were able to give us, but other than that, it was. "Oh, well, deal with it." Pretty much I just had to sit in the room and shake it off. What else? Of course, there was a few officers also that worked that got COVID working there, and of course, they never came back. If I'm not mistaken, I think there was one or two officers that passed away of COVID. Of course, we would always �ask, "Hey, where's so and so?" They're like, "Oh, he got COVID. He's sick. Don't know if he's coming back." That was BS. He had passed away. Maybe two weeks later they did something for him in memory, saying that he was sick with something else already. It wasn't COVID. It was something that he had some kind of illness. A lot of officers were quitting because, of course, they didn't want to get sick and go home and get their family sick. We were on lockdown because there was no officers. We were in lockdown maybe a week or two weeks at a time until they finally had officers come from different states that were actually willing to come and work. There'd be a few officers that will tell us, "Yes, this is what's going on. This, this, and that. We're not supposed to tell you guys," but you had some officers that they sympathized with us. Like I said, it was a nightmare. We never knew when we were coming out or if we were going to eat, if we were going to be able to make phone calls, anything. It was a nightmare. David: Were you-Susan: Sorry [crosstalk] David: Sorry, I wanted to ask a follow-on question if that's okay. Susan: Yes. Go ahead, David. David: Were you provided new PPE on a regular basis or how much personal protection [crosstalk]? Perla: The first time, they gave us the masks the one time. They were made inhouse. Then they, of course, ended up ordering some other masks. I forget what kind it was, but it was another mask that they had ordered from outside, some vendors, whatever. They give us those. Of course, we had to wear them everywhere we went. Other than that, as far as any cleaning products, cleaning or disinfects, they didn't give anybody else but of course, I had mine because Laura made it that way to make sure I was able to disinfect all my stuff. Everybody else was pretty much didn't have anything. There was a point where there was no soap, there was no toilet paper and we would tell them, "Hey, we're running out of toilet paper." "Oh, make fucking do what you got." That was the response. We asked again, there was always a bad answer, "What the fuck you want us to fucking do? We don't even got toilet paper." The officers weren't having toilet paper, we didn't have no toilet paper, it was just like, "How the heck are we supposed to clean ourselves?" Especially being females, you get that time of the month. Like I said, it was a nightmare. It was disgusting. It was terrible. As far as PPE, they are on-- They give me those little shields you wear on your face. Other than that, that was pretty much it. They would give the girl shields when they were in the day room cleaning. That was pretty much it. I had a face shield and I did have to wear gloves. I totally forgot about that. I did have to wear gloves at all times. Susan: Was that just you because you had a special--? �Perla: Yes. Susan: Because of the deal you had worked out but other folks didn't have the gloves. Perla: Right. That was just me but I had to make sure that I had them at all times. It was a pain in the ass wearing gloves all day long. Of course, everybody's looking at you like, "What the heck? Why are you wearing gloves and why don't we get anything?" It's like, "Well, because my lawyer did this, this, and that." I felt bad, but there's nothing I can do but to look out for myself, make sure that I wasn't getting sick. There was-Susan: Did you-Perla: Go ahead. Susan: Did you form relationships with some of the other inmates? Did you have a sense of camaraderie or did all of that get harder? Perla: (30:03 - friendships within the detention center) Yes. I did. Like I said, before COVID, yes, I did make some friends in there and we would all sit down and eat and cook whatever we could in the microwave and sit down and eat together, stuff like that, but once COVID came, I could no longer go out to eat with them or cook with them or whatever, but we would all pitch in a little something to make something good to eat because we always got garbage ass food. The girls are like, "We're making this today. Who gets what and we'll pitch in and we'll make this, this, and that." They would come by my room and I was just pretty much here, I had to put my glove on, make sure whatever I was giving them, I had gloves on because they were watching me. Daniel: What were the special things you would make with them? Perla: One of the ladies, she was like, oh my gosh. She was a lifesaver. I don't know how she did it, but she made moles. She would make us tamales. We ate pretty freaking good, but we made the best of it. Of course, it wasn't like tamales and moles that you get in the real world, but it was good enough for us comparing to the crap that they were giving us. There's times we would get food that was frozen or they just [unintelligible]. It's gross. They make nachos. I also get the ramen noodles. They would make teriyaki noodles. They would use the Pepsi from commissary and the soy sauce and commissary and just make the best of it. There was a lot of girls that got real creative with stuff and of course, they've been there longer than before me, so they already knew how to make things. Since I couldn't come out, they would make their stuff and of course, bring me a plate to my door. It sucked because I had to eat in the room while they were out there talking and eating and it just sucked having to eat by myself. David: This is all the food that was being made by you and your fellow detainees? Perla: Yes, by the rest of the girls. �David: This is all food that was acquired with your own money through commissary, right? Perla: Yes, correct. Susan: That's pretty impressive. Teriyaki noodles with Pepsi and soy sauce and ramen. It's amazing. Anything else you want to say about just the conditions in detention? Beds, blankets, comfort level? Perla: (32:59 – further description of conditions) Oh, it was terrible. The so-called mattress they gave us were flimsy. You wake up with aches and pains because it was pretty much sleeping on concrete. It would get freaking cold in there and of course, they wouldn't give you no more blankets or whatever, this, this, and that. I got lucky. I had to get, of course, a note from the doctor because of my asthma. Then they were giving me a hard time, like, "The cold doesn't affect your asthma." I'm like, "You're not going to tell me what affects my asthma," and pretty much I had a fight for it and the lawyer had a fight for it also like, "She needs another freaking blanket. She's having asthma attacks." It's an ice box in those rooms. They wouldn't turn on the heat. Susan: Is Laura your wife? Perla: What was that? Susan: You said, "Laura had to fight for it too." Is Laura your wife or--? Perla: Lawyer. Susan: Oh, lawyer. I'm sorry. [chuckles] I was trying to figure out-Perla: Like I said, I had to get pretty much the lawyer to give me another cover, this, this, and that, and it'll be cold. There's nights where you wouldn't sleep because you were so freaking cold. David: Were you in a two-person cell but you were alone in that cell? Perla: Yes, and nobody was able to walk in my cell, it was so just me. The officers or whatever would come into my room and stuff like that, but they're the ones that were allowed or the nurses that would come in and take my vitals every day, they're the only ones that would come into my room. Daniel: Perla, you told me a story the previous time we spoke a little bit about how you helped some of the other women to translate their paperwork for their [inaudible] and then process asylum cases and stuff, can you share how that happened? Perla: (35:29 - navigating legal paperwork & inaccessibility) Before anything got worse with the pandemic, I always helped the girls and it was hard because my Spanish is not that great. Of course, they're writing everything in Spanish. I was like, "I got to get a dictionary." They had dictionaries that were Spanish, English, and whatever. I would go from that, or some of the girls would try to explain to me the best as they could so I could understand it. Pretty much they would write stuff down �and I would translate it to English the best I could, and just try to help them out as much as I could. I helped quite a few of the girls their filing paperwork. Daniel: Those were their declarations, what kind of stories were they sharing? Perla: [unintelligible] and they're very, very gruesome. For example, there's one lady, I forget where she was from, somewhere in Central America. Of course she had left I think it was Guatemala, she ended up there because, of course, out there in Guatemala things are bad also. I guess their cartel or whatever was going on. Two of her daughters were actually murdered in front of her. She'd come to me to talk to me about it and she showed me the pictures of how the girls were gunned down. It's stuff like that that it traumatizes somebody because stuff that you see on movies or stuff that you hear on the news but to see it an actual picture and having that person next to you pouring her heart out, explain themselves why they left. A lot of people don't understand why all these other immigrants leave their countries. They don't know the daily struggles or how it is to live in other countries. They will come to United States to get away from that, to have a better life, the stuff you already had to go through to even get here. Some of the Cuban girls would tell me that they were only allowed to buy X amount of groceries and it had to last them for a month. They kept track of what they purchased and what you had in the house. You could have a family of 10 but that groceries had to last you. They would have to make everything from scratch and there was times they were coming to I guess the cops or whatever you want to call them, they would come in, raid your house and take whatever they wanted, beat the shit out of them and just mistreat them. It was just terrible. It was sad to hear all the stuff that they went through and just made it harder because there's a lot of people who don't understand this stuff. They don't know this stuff but they're real quick to judge. Oh, you got all these immigrants coming to United States to take over our jobs and this and that. No, that's not it. They're trying to stay alive. They had to come over to make a better life, but they're trying to stay alive. The thing that always got to me was a lot of people were, "Oh Mexicans, Mexicans, Mexicans, Mexicans." No, it's just not Mexicans. You had some Asian people, you had Canadians, you had Africans, you had everything. It just wasn't Mexicans like everybody always thinks it's Mexicans. It's all these people that come from other countries that have to be pass through Mexico get to get here. It's hard, it's like now that I've been through all that, I do have a lot of, I guess, hate for the United States because the government is so corrupt to get away with everything. They do a lot of things to hurt innocent people. It's hard. (40:28 - mental health struggles from detainment) I'm currently getting help for my PTSD because yes, I am traumatized still from everything that I saw and heard and myself being away from my family and me losing everything that I worked for so hard and now having to pretty much start from scratch. Now I have to carry this name on my-- I guess I'm a felon now. �David: The felony remains on your record even though you were granted asylum? There's no way toPerla: We just went to court back in May. I had to drive back to Arizona and that was very nerve-wracking. I had to take my actual vacation time that I did accumulate at work to pretty much go get sentenced and didn't know if I was going to be locked up. Me and my wife and my mother, we drove out there and get into court and to the grace of God, we were given permission, but we still have to carry this for the rest of our lives that we're felons and something that we didn't do, we had no control of it because we tell everybody if I was going to be drug trafficking, I sure as hell would not use my personal car, that would be very stupid. I said if I was a drug trafficker, I would be living a luxurious life. I would have a fancy house, cars, everything that money buys. When I was in Arizona, I was evicted quite a few times at the house I was at. Of course, none of that mattered to the judge. They didn't want to look into it anymore. They could have easily gone into anything to look up my lifestyle, to see that I was no drug trafficker or anything that just wasn't me. I've always worked, I've educated myself to have a better job and all that just is now a dream. Susan: Did you leave Arizona after you were released because of what had happened here? Perla: Yes. I will never go back. Even when I was leaving, my family would not allow me to come or to travel by myself. My niece and her boyfriend flew out to Arizona to come and get me because they were so paranoid that something else would happen along the way. Even to this day, I still get paranoid though that I'm going to get picked up. Susan: Are you paranoid that you're going to get picked up by immigration? Perla: I know I won my asylum and all but after everything I've been through, I'm constantly still having to look over my shoulder. David: With your asylum attained at this point, you have a work permit. Is that your resident status? Perla: That's what's messed up. It's like everything still remained the same. They took my green card. Now I will have to go and do that over again, and it's not cheap. Of course, where I work at nobody knows of what I've been through. They don't know that I'm on probation. I just try to make the best of it now. David: What are you doing now if you don't mind us asking? Perla: I work at [unintelligible] Environmental Services. I am a SDS operator trainee pretty much. We recycle a lot of hazardous and toxic liquids, you name it, anything. Stuff that comes from a hospital, from labs, we recycle whatever it is and pretty much put it in a big oven that's monitored by computers and they pretty much get incinerated, whatever. �We can make a degreaser out of the stuff that comes out of there and tar that, of course we use and they sell to other customers, but it's a very dangerous job because we do use a lot of nitrogen and stuff does catch on fire. I like my job. I can't complain. I just recently took my one-year test and I passed it. I should be getting my raise within the next week and my title will change to SDS Operator. Within a year I can, well, not within a year, as soon as I want or there's an opening, I can go for a supervisor position, which of course [inaudible] Thank you. Susan: What were you doing before you left Arizona, before all of this happened? What kind of work were you in? Perla: There's a company out in Tucson. They made aluminum powder. The powder that goes into your light bulbs. I was working with the maintenance team, fixing the stuff that gets broken in the big machines. I was also doing the scheduling for my maintenance crew. Doing a man's job, that's pretty much all I know how to do is a man's jobs. I don't sit there on Zoom behind the desk or stuff like that. Daniel: Perla, you got out right around Christmas time. Can you tell us a little bit about winning your case and exiting the facility and reuniting with your wife and family. Perla (48:36 – Perla wins her asylum case, is released from Eloy) That was probably one of the best feelings in the world because I've never been apart from my wife that long. The longest I've been apart from my wife was when I actually went to Texas for a job. But reuniting with my wife, that couldn't have been a better Christmas gift than being home with my wife and with my family, being back with my dogs, my cats, have a decent meal. It was a great feeling but at the same time I was a little upset because a lot of the girls that I did become close with, they were still there. It was hard, and I said, that was the best Christmas I think I've had in a long time after being through all that stuff and I couldn't ask for anything else. Susan: Are you still in-touch with anyone that you met in detention? Perla: Yes. I keep in touch with a lot of the girls. David: Did any of them win or did a lot of them deported? Perla: There was a few girls that got deported, and of course, they also had cases similar to mine, which is funny. Other girls made it out, won their asylums and they're all doing very well for themselves also. I keep in contact with them. Matter of fact, I was talking to one of the girls just yesterday, messaging with them and they're all excited because how everybody says they're living the American dream. Daniel: That's good. One thing we talk about a lot in the Florence Project is universal access to counsel, the goal that everyone in immigration proceedings should get a lawyer, but right now, of course, you don't. When you were in ICE detention, was it really daunting for a lot of people to understand the legal system and how to-- I'm sure that there were some people that had lawyers like you and then there were �probably many that didn't. What was that conversation like or the dialogue around the legal proceedings in detention? Perla: Of course, everybody was having a different case or everybody was different. It was different, but same. A lot of the paperwork, of course, that the girls were receiving was all in English, and half these girls did not speak English, majority did not speak English. There was maybe a handful of us girls that actually spoke English, but of course, because we were already been here in the United States for a long time. It was hard for them, it was really hard to understand the paperwork, and of course, they would ask if they can get it translated, and there was no way. They had to find a way to get the paperwork translated, or understand it and go from there. There was girls that they didn't have no help and they were answering stuff the wrong way. Of course, that would jeopardize their case. It was bad, it was bad. To me that was, I don't know if it sounds right, but to me that was racist, discriminating because they would not translate anything in Spanish. Pretty much it's like, "You came here, now you should figure it out how you're going to do it." Daniel: It's strange, it's like if you buy anything that has a manual, it has five languages, right? Perla: Exactly. Daniel: You can go to an airport, you go everywhere, you'll see Spanish translations or other languages, but for these important documents in immigration proceedings, it's just English or nothing. That's crazy. Perla: Yes. To me, that was racist, being discriminating. To me it was pretty much saying, "If you can't figure it out, oh, well fuck you. You came here, you figure it out. You want to be here? You figure it out." Of course, that's their way of deporting them back. If you can't understand it, you can't prove yourself, you have no reason to be here. To me, that was a tactic because they knew a lot of these girls could not understand it and some of the girls didn't have the money to get lawyers. Some of the girls they were lucky that they were able to attain lawyers to help them and a lot of the girls I know were through Florence Project, and Florence Project is awesome. They've done a lot of great work for a lot of the girls. Trust me, we're very, very, very thankful. Daniel: You said before that you hate the US for the way it treats immigrants. Did this feeling come through that experience of going through detention or before all these troubles. Perla: [crosstalk] before. I was in detention, because back when I was—20 or 21, they tried to deport me also then because I had went on vacation to Jamaica and Grand Cayman. I guess I was not supposed to leave the States, but I had verified with a bunch of lawyers before I even left because I did have little stuff in my background and make sure that that wasn't going to affect me. �They like, "Oh no, you're fine. You're good. That stuff's old." Whatever, it's in the past. If you were incarcerated, you did time, probation, that's all in the past, but this is all happened to be was right after 9/11 when they were just doing random [inaudible] like a lottery. Just any Tom, Dick, and Harry that they were just pull off...just pull them to the side because you had [inaudible] a background. At that time, of course, I had to hire another immigration lawyer and that took about another year of fighting and a lot of money. Pretty much again, had this proof that I was no longer that person. I was a better person. I was young and dumb when I did those things. It's stuff that still haunts me to this day, even though it's about 20 years old. (57:01 - resentment of America due to discrimination) You're young and dumb, you make mistakes, but you learn from it. Ever since then, I always had some hate towards the US because of the way they go about things. It's like, how should I say? They treat an immigrant a lot worse than they would a serial killer or a rapist. You hear a lot of cases where there's rapists and all that stuff, they get a few months, a year or some of them get a slap on the hand, oh, don't let-- That's it, but you got immigrants coming over here just to have a better life, to have a life and they're getting downed and looked at, "Oh, you're a criminal because you left your country to come here. You have to cross all these different states and countries to get here." As if that's an active crime for them to have a better life, but it's okay for an American go rape somebody or kill somebody. That's where a lot of my hate came from. After being detained and seeing all this and hearing stuff, it makes me have a lot more hate, and it sucks because, yes, I'm here in the United States. How should I say? It's two-sided because, yes, I have a life here and there's no way I would make a living in Mexico because like I said, my Spanish sucks. I'm looking if I can count to 20 in Spanish. My colors, I can't tell you them in Spanish. I would never be able to make a living in Mexico. Yes, I'm thankful that I am here, but that still doesn't change my mind and how I feel toward the government and how a lot of these so-called Americans treat all these immigrants. I don't know, it’s just almost embarrassing to be here. Just knowing all this stuff, it's embarrassing...it hurts. It is too like it's your own kind that look down on you because you're an immigrant. Just because you're Hispanic, but yet you were born here, you're not better than all those immigrants because all of us, we are immigrants from somewhere. A lot of these Americans, "Oh, this is our land, this is our--" A lot of people have to educate themselves and find out how the United States came about. It wasn't how they say it's a White man's land, no, it was stolen from Native Americans. Now that's coming to light. People are educating themselves, but it doesn't stop a lot of other people that have hate towards immigrants. Yet, I guarantee you that the people that have this hate have ancestors or family members that are immigrants, but because they're so ignorant to a lot of stuff, they don't see that side of all these immigrants that are coming to have a chance at life. �Susan: Thank you so much. We have just about at an hour and we want to be respectful of your time. Is there anything else that you want to add to your story or is there a message that you'd like anyone who listens to this to take away with them? Perla: (1:01:38 - message to those detained, in legal battles) I would say pretty much for all the people out there that have family members that are going through this stuff to just have faith. Things will work out. I can say for myself, because I was really down in faith, but I just kept my faith and lucky that I had the support from my family. For other family members that have family members that are detained or going through proceedings, to be understanding and patient and just know that at the end of the tunnel there is a light. I just wish that a lot of people that are not familiar with the proceedings of fighting immigration case, which a lot of people will educate themselves first before they judge people why they come here instead of just right away just having hate for people that are just trying to live a normal life like we are... A lot of people just need to educate themselves a lot about the whole immigration and how it goes and why people come here. These immigrants are not coming to steal nobody's jobs or nothing like that. They just want a chance at life. I think it's only right for anybody who want to pursue having a life, a job, a family. That's pretty much it. Perla: Thank you so much. Daniel: Thank you, Perla. Perla: You're welcome. Susan: Thank you. Perla: Welcome. David: Do you have any plans for the weekend? Perla: Actually this is my weekend because I'm off today. My wife was supposed to be off today, but got called into work. I'm actually going to go have dinner with one of my co-workers right now. David: Oh, great. Well, thank you for taking time out of your free time to do this with us. It's really-Susan: Thank you, Perla. David: It means a lot to us. Perla: Thank you. Susan: Thank you. Perla: You guys have a good evening. �David: You too. Perla: Please take care. Perla: I will. Daniel: I'll send you regards to Greg. Perla: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Susan: Absolutely. Perla: All right, you guys take care. Bye-bye. David: Bye now. Susan: Bye. [END OF AUDIO] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Perla Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_008 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Illinois Mexico--Nogales (Nogales) Arizona--Eloy Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020- LGBTQ+ discrimination Solitary confinement Post-traumatic stress disorder Description An account of the resource In this interview, Perla reflects on a trip to Mexico where criminals planted drugs in her car without her knowledge. She was arrested, and shares the challenges of being detained for a year by ICE. Having grown up in Illinois, she had never met asylum seekers, a humbling and informative expereince. Perla was in detention during the outbreak of COVID and describes the negligent response by authorities despite her underlying health conditions. She also describes her life after detention, including her lingering fear of immigration enforcement and her resentment of how the US treats migrants and asylum seekers. https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/f5c45908e495cf3c5e0d481c924fa70e.mp3 c545ef3ecc1b8723b1bc64b68cb97d81 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/244c92450181fff53f4eb65ad2157597.pdf 60d238162a90bff55231406f9d38d13a PDF Text Text David: First off just as our sort of housekeeping, and we'll send you a release. We're compiling interviews to contribute to an oral history project that the intention of it is to be housed at the University of Arizona. It's really meant to center the voices of those who have been detained and to create an oral history where none might exist, otherwise. David: And so, we want people who have endured incarceration in private prisons to sort of be the author of their narrative. The longevity of the project is really intended to be open-ended in that we want this testimony to be in the special collections area of the university in perpetuity. That's our intent. In that space, it will be accessible to a wide variety of researchers, students, policymakers—that's the goal. It may be that the testimony sort of ends up becoming part of other descendant products, but our goal is to create this archive. And so, the first order of business is just that you recognize that that's what our intention is. David: And that you're okay with that. David: And, then we can start with questions. Connie: Hundred percent. I am okay with that. David: Okay, great. David: Well, I think the way we normally start is to talk a little bit about, and obviously approaching this from the way you feel more comfortable, what your circumstance was and how you ended up in detention. Then to speak to your experiences there, and we have follow up questions based on what you offer. We can go a lot of different routes, but we want to really create the opportunity for you in the broadest way and in a way that you feel is really authentic to your experience to just be able to talk. These are intended not to be scripted in that way, and there's not a particular embedded agenda as to what we want to get out of them. Within that your anonymity is important to us. So, everything operates by pseudonyms and confidentiality, especially for people who have ongoing cases where their asylum or immigration status hasn't been determined. We feel like you know the protection of the client is paramount above everything else. David: So, all that said, please go ahead and share with us how you came to be in Eloy and what your experience was there. And it can be everything from the most quiet day to day aspects through things you know much, much sort of broader observations about the system. David: This is Susan, our other colleague who is working on the project. Susan Briante: Hi. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today, we really appreciate it. Connie: I see the importance behind your work, and I think more people need to understand what happens behind the bars and so it's just that simple and that's what spurs me on. 1 �Connie (con’t): So, I appreciate that. So, to answer your question, David, I think that first of all, you learn a lot once you get inside there, and so I probably wouldn't have been able to articulate at the time, how and why I was detained. But now that I've been back, I was in Eloy for 295 days, 10 months, which is a short stay compared to most. I met people that had been in there anywhere from three to five years, five years being probably the longest one that had been in there. There was a bench warrant. I was picked up for that. I went through Fourth Avenue, first, I was released on my own recognizance, because the benchmark was so old. And, to be honest with you, everything was dropped. It was a misunderstanding on credit cards. So, even though the bench warrant was dropped and that there was nothing against me in the state of Arizona, the association that ICE had at that time with Maricopa County led to a lot of people being detained, rather than just being released back to their homes. I was part of that grab and picked up and taken to Florence. I was taken to the Phoenix headquarters at first. You still have no clue what's going on, because in my mind my family was picking me up outside Fourth Avenue. Fourth Avenue removes cuffs and immigration is right there to put the cuffs right back on including the ankle chains. I was taken down to Phoenix and then, at that point, I was one of the very fortunate ones. And I again I can speak now understanding; at the time, I didn't. I was offered a $17,000 bond in Phoenix, which is very rare. Most people fight for a bond, and so I didn't realize how fortunate I was to actually even be given that opportunity to be able to bond out of immigration at that time. I didn't obviously have $17,000, and I've never been incarcerated before. As a matter of fact, I can brag even to this day I've never even had a speeding ticket. And so, that being said, I was blindsided by it a hundred percent. No $17,000. So, they take you from Phoenix downtown into Florence. I was housed in Florence for about 18 hours. And then from Florence over to Eloy. And then the intake process from there. I will say sticking with the Fourth Avenue aspect of the story. So now you're in Eloy. You've got a court case pending in Fourth Avenue or in Maricopa County. Immigration is holding you. County is looking for you. And so, if you can't satisfy county and immigration has you, even if you do get back out, county picks you up again. And so, what a vicious cycle for some of the folks that I met in there trying to plead their case to get immigration to release them so that they could handle their county stuff. And then go through immigration with a clear county, which is very important from a detainee standpoint. I was part of that loophole. I did manage to have a really good county pro bono lawyer, who managed to get immigration to actually let me out at one point, so I could go to county to go back through Fourth Avenue. Do the Estrella jail thing. Get my charges released, get everything settled with county. Then immigration took me again, and I went back to Eloy for a second time. So, like some folks I had the blessing of that place twice over. 2 �Connie (con’t): And then, and then at some point you just, in my case I fought for a little bit, because I couldn't understand what was going on. I absolutely hundred percent own my illegality in the United States. But I was good enough to foster a child in that country for 13 months of its life, and I passed every background check for that. I had my own business thriving, and so it was just appalling to me that I didn't have any legal reason to be granted staying in that country. I fought for a lower bond in Eloy. Thankfully I did get a lower bond and dropped it $2,000, so I had a $15,000 bond now. But it is still unattainable when you're behind bars and you can't access any of your resources. And so, I literally signed my deportation on May 7. And it took them till June 28 to move me from Phoenix to Albany, NY. They moved me from Albany, NY. And then they detained me in segregation in Albany, NY, because they didn't want me in with the general population, because I wasn't saying that long. In what us detainees, called “the hole” and that will eat any sane person alive. And then they literally just drive you across the border and say “best of luck.” No ID, no money, no nothing. At that point, they dropped me back off on the Canadian side on June 28. So, it took six weeks after I signed my deportation to come back across into Canada. Eloy wise (pause) I can't even. You know, it's a crazy place. One hundred percent. Especially if you've never been detained before. Now, if I compare it to the counties. It had some things going for it, over some of the county facilities that I encountered, which would be Estrella Jail and Fourth Avenue. But that being said, in Eloy you're not prepared for anything that you hear or see in there. And I would segregate the population to be three major demographics.And they actually did that by color codes in the clothing. And you’ll probably be familiar with some of the lingo on this, with the blues and the greens and the khakis. I was placed in khaki and not because of charges, but because I identified as living an alternative lifestyle, which just appalled me that in that year we were still dealing with that. But we were, and then obviously the greens and the blues. And so, I was grateful after learning to be at khaki because when I was giving porter position, I could at least integrate with both the green and the and the blues for lack of better words for that for all populations, rather than being told I can't associate with the blue folks or with the green folks, etc. Go ahead, David, yeah please. David: Could you elaborate more on what the color codes designate and also define alternative lifestyle? I think it's interesting to sort of have that be explicit if you're willing. Connie: Absolutely happily. In one of the questionnaires, and I can't recall, and I was released in July 2018. So, I’ve only been free for four years, going to start my fifth year soon. But one of the questions was “do you identify as gay or lesbian?” And I do. And so “alternative lifestyle.” 3 �Connie (con’t): And so that, is my understanding, is what put me into the khaki color code rather than the green or the blue. And the greens are, in my understanding, and as we categorize them, as fellow detainees, normally the folks that were just coming fresh across the borders, for whatever reason. The asylum seekers there they were usually in the greens, and those with little to no charges against them, whether it be misdemeanors or felonies, were always green. The khakis, my understanding, obviously, you've identified as an alternative lifestyle apparently that gets you there. And then, if you had any kind of charges pending against you, that were not up in the felony rankings, per se. My understanding misdemeanors, felony sixes. we're always in the in the khakis. And then the blues were those that had charges period. They had broken some kind of state laws, and therefore they had charges against them and they were there as a result of that. And so, we were segregated into different living communities based on our color codes and also chow hall was affected by color codes, walking to the rec yard was affected by color codes. And so, everything, you became very quickly segregated based on whatever color you happen to be wearing. David: That's really interesting to sort of hear the logic from your vantage point. And I did not understand what the color codes were. I mean I recognize them as being important because you see them. But I didn't know how they were assigned. Connie: Yeah, they were assigned based on that stuff. And you know, interestingly enough, I'm trying to be politically correct, but I literally had never really witnessed or experienced white privilege until I was detained in Eloy. And so being the token, educated, white Canadian girl, I was favored. And I'll be the first to admit it. I never feared for my health. Actually, I did fear for my health, I never feared for my safety. There's a difference. I never feared for my safety. The guards all took a liking to me. Of course, I could speak the language. I was given porter duties. If the guards wanted to go and do a trash run, it was like “Hey go get Connie, she'll go with us.” I was a buddy to many of them and able to make those relationships which helped us. I'm not going to say it helped me, but it helped me help others. Because, as a result... A couple of quick stories. If someone came back from visitation and was visibly upset, I had just seen I can even tell you there was one mother whose son was refusing to eat because she was detained, an American born child, and here she is in Eloy. And she came back to the pod living area visually upset, broken. Their first reaction and response because they don't know what to do, or how to deal with emotions when it comes to mental health, was to put her in the “hole”, put her in segregation. We were like just let her stay in the pod with her community. You know you couldn't hug, you couldn’t touch. But at least that way she's sitting on a bench here with somebody, and she's not alone and her brains are not eating her alive. And so, some of those times, because of my favor with the guards, I was able to say “Just keep walking past. I got this.” And they're like “Are you sure?” And I was like “I got it just go.” 4 �Connie (con’t): I was able to do some of the same, you know, extra sack lunches and the food and stuff like that it was you know. I always had extra trays and I always had extra food. God love, those Guatemalans. They could divide an apple 1000 ways and feed almost everyone in the living facility. And so, I can't even tell you enough about that stuff. It'd be like, you know, I got two apples and if I put them in the middle of the table. Those little girls would just split that dang thing up and make it work 1000 different directions. So, in that way, being the token white girl was absolutely advantageous to the living conditions for many there. And at the time, I didn't like it. No lie. But now four years later, I can see that I was able to be instrumental in a lot of stuff. I'm going to go off on a tangent, a different direction. That system is set up for failure. One hundred percent. An educated white girl can't even navigate it, let alone those that don't understand the language. And even those that speak fluently Spanish and English. And I learned enough to be dangerous. There are words on the Court papers that we don't even use as educated Americans. “It's up to the discernment of the Court.” Those that are bilingual are going: “What the hell does ‘discernment’ mean?” So I had to dumb it down for them.“They will discern it” means “it’s kind of up to the judges' feelings.” Dumbing it down for them to even be able to do the translation to those who only spoke Spanish. In my case, it was mind blowing to me. Let alone to those that are seeking fresh asylum. We're holding them to standards they can't meet. When it comes to you know, we need to see your medical records of when you were beaten and abused. Or we need to see your police report of when this happened to you in your country. Or we need documented proof of this. First of all, you can't access anything when you are in Eloy in my experience. Even if you did have money for the phone system and the stamp system, it's so slow and so laborious. Number one. And number two for those folks there's just no way that they could ever be held to the standard that we're trying to hold them to when it comes to pleading their cases for their lives. And so, there were times when I would go to the library, and I'd have thirty detainees deep just waiting for someone to be able to dumb it down and break it down. And most of the Guatemalans, they are tribal in my experience. And I mean we gave pens to detainees and set them down and they never even held an ink pen to be able to sign where we're trying to get them to sign. It was mind blowing in that way and being able to hear so many other stories and help them understand the paperwork. And they're taught to have high regard for authority and so, of course, you know your deportation officers, job is to get you out of the country, in our opinion. And so, they would go and meet with them, and if any of them said “sign”, those girls didn't know what they were signing. They just trusted the authority in front of them, based on their respect for authority. And I think that that became probably one of the most…. 5 �Connie (con’t): Two of the things that we advocated for the most: Number one is don't sign unless you understand. There was a couple of times when they would come back to the living area pod so excited. They were told they were going to be connected to their children and reunited with their children. And what they just signed was their deportation papers. And their children, at that time, I was there when the Trump zero policy was in place. I was there that night with those Guatemalans. And the children went to Texas, and the mothers were in Arizona. And even to this day, I have a detainee group on Facebook that's probably about 1200 strong and there are still about 500 children who aren’t reunited with their mothers, at this point. And when the new President took office, I can show you text messages that I received in Facebook messenger: “Does this mean I’m going to get my son?” And so, there's still folks that are looking for their children, to this day. But I was able to get to those mothers. “Don't sign. Just stop signing until someone can explain to you what you're signing.” Because they didn't understand that. That was huge in a way. And then also the immigration system when it came to looking for their children, to ask how their children were. Those ladies, and I’m not making light of it, but those ladies are literally: “My son was born when the moon was in this phase, and the grass was this high.” They’re Guatemalans or Hondurans. And we're saying “What's your son's identifying marks? And when’s his birthday?” And so, we're holding everybody to standards that those folks can't even meet. And so, it was just mind blowing to be able to try and advocate and get some answers for them on some basis. And that's literally just the fresh border crossers that are running for their lives, in my opinion. And feeling like they have limited choices and, in their mind, they're doing exactly what's right for their children. And who am I to judge that? And then the others, the khakis and the blues. “They're hardcore criminals.” And you know, my push back has been that I have a whole new mindset about that. I'm not saying that I don't believe that there shouldn't be punishment for our crimes and stuff. But for Pete's sake, I can't look at anybody who hasn't made an error and/or a poor judgment, a time or two. And so literally I’m not sure that removing them from their children and their families and sitting them the courts… when they used to go in little packs of four or five, and hearing the judges say: “Well, your children will get used to you not being part of their lives because they'd have to do that, even if you were dead.” Hearing some of those stories, some of the judges, some of the remarks and stuff like that, the callousness. I understand they probably have to be callous in order to guard themselves and shield their own mental health. But by the same token, the impact it has on lives is mind blowing. David: One thing that we've heard consistently in other interviews that'd be really interesting to hear you reflect on: when there are moments of duress or trauma the guards will deal with that with harsh treatment, whether it be isolation in the “hole” or in some cases physical restraint and even physical violence. Did you witness any situations of that sort? 6 �Connie): I witnessed it a couple of times. I'm 5’10.” And so, I definitely didn't have any issues at all (God love us) in there. But, that being said, some of the guards tend to be very reactive, and we had a house manager at one point that said that our approach would determine her response. And I pushed back on that. You should be able to control yourself, no matter how you're approached. And so oftentimes I was able to have those conversations. I only had a pepper spray incident twice in ten months that were part of my experience in the pod and not even directly in the one that I was in. I will tell you, interestingly enough, the microwaves and the phones tend to be the points of emotion, while you're detained. Crazy enough. And I avoided the phones even walking past them. Because you never knew what was being said on the other side. And oftentimes I think the family members, and I experienced it too, they’re so mad that you're there because they're not. They're feeling helpless. They're feeling limitless; they don't know how to help the person who’s being detained. I experienced that as well, so you're on the phone looking for support, and all you're getting is anger and a push back, and so I get it. I was picked up September 2017, and by December I stopped the phones. I went the next five months without any calls. One hundred because of my experience in it. And God love us, at least, I was able to process it, where I don't know if everybody has that ability. But the phones and the microwaves tend to be very high and emotional from the detainee's standpoint. And, if anything was going to happen, it was going to be in one of those two places was my experience. But guard wise, a lot of unnecessary lockdowns, a lot of write ups, you know, for just different things you know refusing to do this. But then, by the same token, I think everybody's in a power play in there. They chain you and all, and we have no control over anything and so therefore any control, you can exert you want to. I have a such a different understanding on the hunger strike situation, the wanting to take one's own life. Because it’s power. That's how you feel empowered when you're in those cells and in those facilities. Because you can't do anything else for yourself, but I can control whether I eat. I can control whether I self-harm. And so, I get it from the detainee standpoint. I saw more issues with self-infliction while I was detained (as in those trying to take their lives and those self-harming looking for, in my opinion crying for attention, or crying for a way out) than I did guard-wise. But then again, we need to keep in mind that I had white privilege 100%. And so, those guards that were in my pod, I didn't experience what I've heard some have experienced, even since my release, that are in the detainee group on Facebook sharing some of the stuff that they went through. And I think that me sitting there sometimes may have changed some of that course. Because I I can write, I can write the grievances, I can speak the grievances, I mean there's a couple times, where I was a porter for, God loves us, the longest time in there. And you know, a couple of times, (a guard would say): “You need to get out here, you need to get here now.” “You really don't need to approach me that way, and I’m on my way.” And so I was able to just reframe a lot of the stuff with those that tended to be a little bit more aggressive on the guard side, if that makes sense. 7 �Connie (con’t): So, I didn't experience that. There's quite a few times when I was called into the “hole” area to do cleanups after someone had either soiled the walls and/or tried various ways of hurting themselves. Oftentimes that was usually with the razors given at nighttime in the showers and that kind of stuff. And then, you know, jumping from the second floor down to the first and everything's metal, right? We did witness that a couple of times as well. The medical system there is (I don't know if you've probably heard about that) if you don't get up at 4:30 in the morning to get in line and state that you have anything that you're feeling, you're pretty much stuck feeling it. And their answer to everything is drink more water. I was very fortunate that I never got ill there, and I have no idea why. But I actually even wheelchaired. I was 5 '10 ", the biggest girl in the pod. So literally every time someone fainted or passed out, it was always: “(Connie), take them down the medical.” And again, the white privilege because “(Connie) can walk the yard.” Literally I can remember, Daisy was her first name, I can’t remember her last name. But taking her, she fainted. We've got her in the wheelchair, her head’s leaning against my arm here. And I get to medical, and they are like “Just go.” And I’m like “I can't move my arm because her head is leaning on there,” and when I move my arm perhaps, she’s going to hit the metal on the wheelchair. “Just go.” And I was just like: “I'm not going to let her hit the metal.” “We're going to write you up.” “You go ahead and write me up because I’m not letting her head fall. I'm the only thing supporting this poor girl in the wheelchair.” And she finally came back around. So she could sustain and hold herself. And then she couldn't articulate what caused her to faint. They literally put her back in the pod 30 minutes later. And so that’s the medical system, just mind blowing. And yet, I know ladies that have had gall bladder operations, while they were in there. But they'd been in there five years in this one particular case. And I know another lady that actually went through some breast cancer treatment while she was there as well. So, I can't obviously knock it all the way, but when it came to influenza or allergies or any of that kind of thing,.. We had scabies go through. We had chicken pox go through, while I was there as well. Their answer is literally just more water and lock the facility down. So now you're no longer even outside where there may be fresh air. And your meals are all coming in sack lunches. There's nothing else at that point. David: When you said you were able to walk the yard. Did you have different privileges than other people in that regard? Could you get outside more than the one hour a day that seems to be allotted to people most frequently? Connie: So, no not necessarily more than. On one hand, yes, I was able to: “Hey we need this run over to the library, can you do it?” Which let me go from pod to library. Or “Hey, can you run this down to intake? They need this.” Okay, so I could walk to intake. Or “Hey here's a garbage bag, (Connie) won't you come out on the yard with me and walk the yard.” And thankfully, one guard every evening would take me out after dinner, and I would be out there until lockdown. And I was literally with a garbage bag and just walking and picking up the debris in the yard. 8 �Connie (con’t): But also, as the same token, then that's when I usually got a couple extra sack lunches. And then I was able to bring them back to the pod for the girls. So to answer that yes. I also because every time I went to the library, I had a little lineup. I usually was able to get in on both my color’s library time, as well as the blue color’s library time as well. They were never concerned with me being part of that gang as well. Even though I wasn't in their pod. The blues are in a totally separate area. I saw your note there, Greer, on the connection. David: Did you want to ask a question, Greer? Greer: I was just going to say: what you described about the medical treatment or lack thereof is something that we're actually trying to really increase our advocacy around right now. Because I'm sure, as you can imagine, it only continued to get, I don't want to say worse, because I don't want to compare experiences. But I think you can imagine what it's been like during the COVID pandemic for people who have been in detention, during the pandemic. So, I think I want to thank you for talking about that and bringing that up because that is one of the things that people in detention are just continuing to talk about that hasn't gone any better and it's really important. I just wanted to thank you for sharing that. Connie: No, no worries, you know, interestingly enough when David when you're talking at the very, very beginning before we start recording, I thought very quickly there for a minute. In private there's been so much pushback on the private owned enterprises. And I’m, of course, now that I can educate myself a lot more. And obviously I have shared I had that detainee group. And some of the guards that were there when I was there are no longer guards for CoreCivic. And friendships grew as a result of being there. But, that being said, my experience even there showed that progressively it was getting worse in Eloy. Then of course now my detainee group alludes to that fact. Then COVID brought new restrictions and some of the mandates and some of the situations centered around the pandemic made it worse. I mean we went from, you know, being able…. even in my short time, 10 months….in visitation you could hug, hold hands, and sit close to feel the body warmth and the human connection. And then you know, two months into my stay there, now there's barriers. You can only hug hello. You can hug goodbye. Don't touch each other. Don't wipe someone's tears. Don't reach across and hold hands. None of that stuff. To now we no longer have the snack machines in visitation. To now visitation’s going to be totally more regulated. Even in my short 10 month stay you could just see. “Here's shampoo and toiletries and hygiene products” versus now “We're going to cap that and not give that as much.” And so, interestingly enough, even then, in a short 10 months span we could see, I can see now, how things were changing to be a lot harsher than what they were when we were first there. And yet all along you're told “You're detained, you're not in jail. You're detained, you're not in jail. You're just being detained.” And yet there's nothing there to help you, like I said, advocate for your case or be able to do anything in that direction. 9 �Connie (con’t): But yeah, I can't even imagine during COVID, and as a matter of fact I even know that Eloy lost two guards due to COVID. As in passing. So, interestingly enough, their own system is hurting their own. David: Yeah, there's a facility in Mississippi, the Adams County Detention Center. It's a CoreCivic facility that's devoted to people who have been convicted on felony reentry. So, it's almost entirely devoted to Immigration, but in particular, that you know that infraction. And last May, when I documented it, I found an article that said the population is like 1300 and there were like 700 cases of corona virus. And so, you know clearly once it's gotten to a point like that, it doesn't matter whether you're an employee or a detainee. The virus doesn't (care). So yeah, it's everything you're saying sort of washes with other information that we have. There’s just a system in which there's a fundamental disregard for the sort of basic necessities of humanity. Connie: Well, and interesting enough, because I could understand the radio chatter, and I could talk to the guards, Even their mandates for overtime and stuff. Oftentimes, they are overworked. By their own doing, they pick the job. But, by the same token, the environment, and then they’re overworked and then stressed out. And then they are not understood [because of] the language barrier. And that they don't try to cross that barrier anyway or try to get to know the folks. I mean the very first time someone said lockdown I had no idea what that meant. Let alone your door being popped at five in the morning. You're like “Why is someone coming into my cell at this hour?” In your mind you're in a cell for chow or for breakfast or whatever. There's just so many things that you just don't understand. Especially if you're not part of that or have never been part of that environment. And I, you know I’ve said this all along, since being out too. And this is a whole other tangent, but there needs to be some kind of system to reintegrate us back into society, myself included. If you had asked me eight months or a year out: “Do you want to go back?” I would have said yes. And I make no bones about that. I came back to a safe country. I had a great support system. I obviously rebuilt my businesses, you know, etc., etc., But, that being said, there's something to be said about … It's May, I’ve had three suicides this year in the detained population, after being deported. I've had three already in May. That's just up the demographic that I am connected to. And one was in the streets in Phoenix, one was in the Philippines, and one was on the Mexican side. And so, literally, in my opinion, especially the one in Phoenix, it was the inability to reintegrate back into society and the where do I start mindset. Even in 10 months I lost my car, my house, all my material possessions, except for what I was picked up in. And so, everything, everything my social media presence, my websites, everything was a total refresh I’m four years in that's it. And I came back, and I tell all my detainees I'm no different than they are. It's just that I picked a safer drug. My business was my drug rather than me picking heroin or picking up meth. 10 �Connie (con’t): But mind-blowingly, we've had already had three suicides in 2022 as a result of being deported and not knowing how to reintegrate or how to rebuild their lives or start over again because of the system. David: If you're interested, given your continued work in this arena with your continued contacts, maybe talk about the work you're doing now. What the scope of that is. I think it's a really interesting aspect of your story that you maintain contact with the detainee population and are in an advocacy role. Connie: Well, so I feel very bipolar in this because I have a normal business that normal business folks gravitate towards. But I tell you I’ve shared in two forums. One just happened back in February. The white girl perspective has been huge in being detained and especially even some of my American folks who do not believe in immigration and believe that immigration is a detriment to American society are starting to see things a little bit differently. When it comes to sharing some of the stories of the folks that I met while detained, you have heard a lot of their stories and why they're seeking asylum. And some of the living conditions and experiences that they have had that they shouldn't have ever had to experience. So that being said, it's been interesting to see from a humanitarian standpoint, to see some folks not so against immigration and immigrants and to have a little bit more kindness for it. I’ve had to be very politically correct, to be honest. Just to go to a current situation with the Ukraine situation. Because my population, seeing them being embraced due to a war-torn country. And my folks are saying: “Why didn't they do that for me?” I get it in a heartbeat. There's a Facebook page “Close the Camps” that a lot of us follow, and they're very quick to articulate that kind of injustice for lack of better words. What I have on my site, so my demographic for the Hispanics. The group on Facebook is mind blowing and everybody we're all connected that way. I actually took a lot of Spanish classes, when I came back across because I wanted to be able to articulate. I can hear it and read it. I just can't push it back. I have four or five girls even to this day that I can pull into conversations with me to help have the conversations. And oftentimes I will say 70% of the struggles are around family. Because their children are still on the American side, and they are not. And then also bringing the children down into Mexico is not often smart for a lot of them to do. And then thankfully I’ve been able to self-sustain very quickly. So sending funds has been a big thing for me as well, to be able to support some of them with their basic necessities or food or to at least get them connected up to cell phones and Internet and stuff has been amazing. I can't tell you how many times a day I type “We are going to hug. You just need to wait for me to get there.” So that's been huge as well, to know that. And COVID was almost a crazy blessing in my world. Because I am actually fearful of the day that I do go down into Mexico and come up to Sonora and Nogales and see a lot of the folks that are making lives for themselves there. I think there's some that are hanging on for that hug moment, and I’m afraid that once that hug moment happens: How am I going to keep them hanging on beyond that? 11 �Connie (con’t): And that's a real fear for me and probably the only reason I haven't hopped in a plane yet. Because, at least if I keep typing, ”Just hang on we're going to get all to get together and build a chat.” There's a glimmer there. So, it's a very weird emotional situation for me when it comes to that stuff. But then, that being said, it’s just the technology is mind blowing. Because I, you see, one of the Guatemalan ladies, showing me a picture of her river on Facebook, while she's doing a live video. (laughs) And so it's kind of crazy that way too, that connection. You know I never understood the semper fi like the army and the navy and the untied bonds and those who go to war together stick together and stuff, until you've been detained. The detained population is no different than that. I’ve also watched these girls strike up a chat on messenger 20 folks deep because they found one of them unresponsive on the streets of Nogales, and we need to get her to treatment. And we need these many pesos. And so, the way that they rally behind each other and hold and support each other. I’ve actually taken those and shown my Canadian and American friends that because there's so much that can be learned from that camaraderie. It was like that in the facilities. Cliques? One hundred percent. Tables that you didn't want to necessarily go towards? 100%. But that being said, it's kind of like we're all in this environment together. And so it becomes a huge sisterhood for lack of better words. I don't know how else to explain. And I am sorry, David, I forgot what your original question was, but I hope I have covered it there. David: I think you got to it and you are clearly doing really important work. Connie: And I think they just need to know someone hears them and sees them. And you know I did a zoom, thank you for refreshing. It was in February and some of my Mexicans were on the retreat that I was speaking at about detainment. And so, it was neat to be able to watch them chat and go: “Oh yeah like I still don’t have my son or I still don’t have my child.” Or “Oh yeah, I remember that instance, when we were sharing ramen noodles and stuff like that.” And so, it's been able to pull everybody kind of together in a different way. They just want to be heard and seen just like everybody else does. So, again going back to the period where you're not allowed to hug and stuff in there, I can’t tell you how many times I got caught hugging somebody. And my excuse was they tripped and I was just trying to catch them. And the guards just let my smart-ass mouth go. And I didn't have any problems. But you know, and that's all. That's all they needed was just, someone to say like I see you and that became it. And that's the hugest thing in that detainment group to say “I see.” That's it, you know, end of story. Do I wish I could do more, hundred percent? But by the same token, I also know that there's a few here that are here because of the sisterhood that they're feeling. And they wouldn't be otherwise. That when someone passes, I can't even tell you how, even though I’m going to allude to the folks in blue, hardcore criminals, people who are now deported because they took lives on the American side. So, I’ll be the first to say that, and I can name them. But yet they're 12 �even reaching out going: “Why's everyone dying?” So they're even feeling the want of taking their own lives and stuff. Even some of these folks came out just before me, some of them that are just as long as me and they're still struggling with the repercussions of what detainment did to them. And I don't think you know. I know I did it to myself, 100% self-accountable. I know I do it to myself. But still, you just don't expect it. And it goes back to that system setup for failure. It's like: why can’t I just come in legally? I would love for you to tell me how to tell them to do that. Because I’ll be the first to pass on the message. There's just no sense in it. I had a bunky, one of my cell mates, five counts of child endangerment, overdose in front of her children. She's free on the American side, got granted her rights to stay in the states. I have another friend who hadn't been in Mexico since she was eight months old. She's 35 shoplifting at Walmart, $400 shoplifting charge trying to feed her six American-born children, and she's in Mexico. And so, there was just there's no consistency there. Literally as detainees, we could tell how it was going to go based on the judge. And so, we knew with what judges you have hope or start packing now. And so, we were able to and I tell you, my line: “Every one of them, those judges, are only doing their job. And they believe the same way you do. Do not be fearful of them, stand up for yourselves.” Same as in Guatemala. I’m sure all of you know that there's 26 different dialects of Spanish. And I tell you I probably every day, sometimes twice a day, wrote a letter to ICE saying they need a translator in their dialect. Because they haven't got a clue what you're saying when it comes to me and she and all of the different dialects. Because the only thing they provided was Spanish, they didn't provide dialects in some other languages. I had detainees refusing to go to court until you can assure us that there's a translator there that speaks her language, so she has a hope. Let alone the educational system of the Guatemalans. Again, they're not up to our standards. We are trying to hold them to standards they can’t reach. David: Anybody else want to ask a question? Daniel: Sure, thank you. This makes me think about how, no matter how many different people you talk to, I still learn things about what it's like to be detained. Can you talk a little bit more about the conditions that you experienced or witnessed, like the food and the kind of toiletries and clothing and beds. Was it cold? Was it dark? A little bit more of the quality-of-life kind of experience that you had. Connie: So cold, yes, always. So, the cells were always cold, even though you're in the middle of the Arizona desert. And oftentimes if you tried to do something for warmth like a lot of people would try and put cardboard up in their ventilation area in their cellblock, you would be written up for it in a heartbeat for that. And a couple of write ups put you in segregation. Let alone the repercussions. So cold, yes. 100%. Living conditions, I mean you're in jail. So if you could get two mattresses as long as you didn't get caught with them: bonus. The mattresses are an inch and a half thick at best. 13 �Everything's metal, which you all know, and I don't expect comfy chairs per se. But by the same token, not pleasant that way. When it comes to hygiene products, honestly one of those little bottles of shampoo. At the time, I still do, I have hair down to my waist so that little bottle is not going to cut it. And so, female hygiene products if you had a nice guard, you could probably get two and three disposable pads. If you were a heavy menstruator and bleeder, God love the girls for that, because you would just bleed through almost every time. The pads were the high school equivalent of toiletries. Toilet paper. I never had an issue with that. Again, that was based on my skin color, I believe. But toilet paper it's like if you ran out you ran out. That's where some of the sisterhood inside the cells, inside the pod, became huge. It's like: “Hey this person needs this. This person needs that,” and there was a lot of swapping.: That being said, inside the pod was great. But if you wanted to get it to another pod, if one pod was disrupted greatly and everybody wanted to donate some of their cups and some of their waters and stuff like that some of the guards wouldn’t allow the helping of one another. When it came to the five living facilities in each pod, I’m sure most of you know this, I was in Bravo 300. If in Bravo 400 someone needed something in there, there was no way of helping them out, per se. Showers? Thankfully out of the five showers, it was probably consistent that only two or three worked at any given time, even during my stay. And then, if they decided a lockdown while you were showering, shampoo soap in your hair. It doesn't matter. Just lock down and get out of there. So you learn to be very strategic when you pick and choose to shower. Food wise, I was told it was a soy-based diet, and that's why we didn't have any meat and that kind of stuff in there. A lot of pastas and potatoes and breads because I believe that, in their mind, that's what would fill everybody up. And so, a lot of that kind of stuff. A lot of like mostly just the Jello’s when it came to the sweets. Cake a couple of times. I was there for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and so obviously we had a little bit of cake as a treat then. The food was mind blowing as in I did experience moldy bread, a couple times. More times than not breakfast wise, most of us didn't even get up unless they were serving hard boiled eggs. Because it just wasn't worth it for the oatmeal. Meal wise was just crazy and that's why a lot of people depend on the commissary. And that's why a lot of people become porters. Even at $1 a day, which I received, by the end of the week, you had $7 and you could at least hook yourself up with ramen, and therefore have something with some kind of taste to it. And, God love the girls, because they could knock out cakes, when it comes to putting it together with the oatmeal and using the flavored Kool Aid and stuff like that. They could create little celebrations within the pods and lighten the environment considerably that way. There were a couple of times when girls tried to take bread back to the pods. You can heat it up in the microwave and make toast out of it, especially if you had peanut butter and Nutella and stuff like that. 14 �Connie (con’t): They randomly picked people to do the pat downs outside. So, if you got caught with food, you were in some trouble there for trying to take food back to the living facility. Which, from a bug perspective, I can kind of get it. But then from another perspective, these folks are hungry. Dangit, just feed them. Because it's not like you're feeding them anything that's expensive. You know I did the math when I got out. The statistic at that time was every detainee cost $150 a day. I don't know if it's changed any or not, but I don't know where that money's going to. Because it was not in any of my experience to be anything like that. The pods were kept fairly clean, but that's because of the porters. Literally the porters, those that were hired to do the jobs, are the ones that kept everything clean. So, when I think about it from an outside standpoint there's no cleaning staff in the facility whatsoever as a janitorial so the cell mates are doing that. The cell mates are doing the cooking. And so, when it comes to the actual facility providing anything they literally only, in my opinion, provided guards. That's it because even when it came to the health care and the mental health care and stuff like that, it was literally guards that were doing the intake and trying to ascertain whether you needed anything further. And then, if you needed something further, you better hope to God that you didn't get sicker or die while you're waiting. And it just literally comes down to that several times and in a lot of ways. I was 310 pounds when I got detained, I was 209 in 10 months when I got out. And it's not because I was necessarily fussy. I fed up on ramen very well. And I was well cared for, when it came to stuff. But in terms of the meals, every six days, the rotation starts with the food again. And so you always knew what was coming, and what was being served. Whether you want to get up or you didn't want to get up. Whether you're just going to stay in the pod and suck it up and go hungry. And then, if you got to chow hall, Eloy is divided into two sides, North side and South side. And they mirror each other. And I had learned probably my fourth or fifth month, then, that the sides compete on who gets done chow faster. And I understand the radio lingo because I spoke the language. And so, literally you know you barely get your tray you're sitting down to eat, and they're already telling you hurry up like let's go, let's go, let's go. And so oftentimes, sometimes that pressure made it so that you're just like why bother just scrap the tray. And so, there's a lot of that kind of hurriedness always around. I did not feel that walking to the rec yard, or you know even in library the set times we were there. But mealtime was always hurried and rushed and like let's go let's go let's go. And they're always pushing us out to push in the next group. That tended to be the most time when if you're going to have a guard raise their voice, it was usually at mealtime in the chow hall rushing through the system. David: There was the young woman who we interviewed that described as the pandemic commenced, that the regime, you know the daily regimen became more constrained, and that there were I can't remember what she said it was 10 minutes or 15 minutes, but it was you had a short window of time that you could either make a call, take a shower, or get food. You basically couldn't do all three in that period of time, and so you needed to pick one. 15 �Connie (con’t): I can totally believe that. And also going back to speaking of time, when you were locked in for the chicken pox little run that went through there, and scabies and stuff it was the same principle. I mean your sack lunch and then you're pushed back into your cell right because they didn't want anybody out. So, I can't even imagine those detained during the pandemic how much time they spent in their cells. And if you didn't have someone in your cell that you got along with or that you could even communicate with, talk about amplifying that. Let alone the lack of privacy and that kind of stuff that you encounter and have to get used to very quickly in there. And then the negative talk and that kind of stuff until just crazy, crazy in that aspect when it comes to that kind of stuff. And then I never sent my clothes to laundry. I used that little bottle of token shampoo to wash my clothes. And if you are lucky enough to get to buddy up with someone who was working porter and intake and you could have extras when it came to the T-shirts specifically, the underwear, and stuff like that. The khakis you probably didn't ever need extras in, but because the laundry stuff would come back with a substantial odor and I’m not going to say it's necessarily dirty. I just think it was just the facility. I mean it's in the middle of nowhere. I'm not sure what the water condition is, let alone, you know the soap and stuff that they were using and I can imagine it wouldn’t be your equivalent to a great type product. And so I sent it maybe once or twice of that. After that I’m like no I’m all good. And so, as a matter of fact even shoes and that, God loves them, some of those girls were forced into footwear that was either way too big for them or just a little bit too small. And trying to make that work when it comes to getting through and stuff. So, I’ve told some of my friends watch “60 Days In” which is that show. Because it's jail. Jail is jail and even though you know we were constantly told we're not in jail, but it was all exactly the same when it came to that kind of stuff in the hygiene and the showering, and the being able to take care of yourself that way. I mean you can even get a hair tie half the time unless you get them from commissary, right? Therefore, the girls with long hair, the matiness. Let alone those that came in with you know any kind of nails and stuff like that watching them grow out can be pretty painful for some of the girls. You know, crazy enough, even in the khaki area those that were victims of domestic abuse and called the police for help were detained and would come in bruised and battered. Quite colorful skin tones, even if they were Hispanic and darker skinned. And those girls watching, some of them heal through some of that stuff in those conditions without you know the band aids that you and I would reach for and the rubbing alcohol and stuff like that. It was not a great environment for that kind of stuff whatsoever. David: Did you observe overt racism between guards and detainees? Connie: A Hundred percent. Yes. I won’t even hesitate, and maybe I wouldn’t have if I had been Hispanic and identified as that. I think that that goes down to I was treated differently than most of them were to an alarming rate. I can't even speak on that and get across passionately enough for everybody to understand that there is racism there. 120% Racism and political views very strongly. Especially at the time I was there, it was rated as Obama and Trump policies were coming head-to-head. So that Democrat versus Republican side of 16 �things. Connie (con’t): Guards trying to pick (a fight) with some of the others that may have been more on the educated side. The arguments and the banter. That way of looking down on the Guatemalans, God love them, who don't have running water in some of their countries, you know. Wanting them to shower. The guards making derogatory slurs about how they will stink and stuff rather than empowering them to understand that they're safe to take their clothes off here, because no one's going to abuse you. “Go ahead and get in that hot shower and close that curtain.” And so, just you know that “Hey, this pod’s gross and dirty” and “They're not listening to me.” And I even said to one guard in specific, without mentioning names: “You can yell at them all you want. It's not that they don't hear you. They don't understand you.” She was trying to get them to mop and clean. And as soon as I grabbed the broom, God love them, they would swoop in and take that broom from me. And the gringa, the white girl, didn’t have to do any of it. And so, literally I could get them to do what needed to be done just by example. But the racial slurs and stuff like that were very, very much a problem with certain guards, I wouldn’t say all of them. It wasn't across the board 100%. I think there truly were some there that legitimately cared. I’ve even had one that is no longer working for CoreCivic that said “Because of you, I saw the detained population differently.” And you know those words, she was a hard-ass guard who everybody feared, and hearing that from her was mind blowing for me. But it's like, why did it take that, you know? And I’ve even said that to my American friends. “Why did it take me being detained, for you, to now have a tender eye to those that are fighting for their lives?” Like it pisses me off, to be honest, because it shouldn't have to take someone like that. It shouldn't. And so, that stuff went on, yes racial. Big time! Huge, huge, huge! I didn't see it, I saw it a lot more from the female side, then from the male guards. 100%. It tended to be more female oriented. And when I was there, there were almost no males on my side of the facility. Because I was there when, I don't know where the girls all came from. They literally closed down what we would call Alpha, which used to be a 100% male facility. And they literally made three out of the five pods in Alpha female because they had so many. So, it was a crazy time that way, because here I was in Bravo. But I traveled around to the pods to get the ice. That being said, it was crazy having to be male or female, even from a detainee standpoint. It was kind of weird. David: There was a point after your time there that Eloy went exclusively female. I’m pretty sure that it became exclusively female, and the male population was at La Palma, but now that seems to have changed. La Palma has been repurposed to a state and county population that's not immigration oriented. I guess that's something I’m going to follow up on where the immigrant detainee population has ended up in the aftermath. Greer: We can update you on that offline. I think La Palma would have opened right about when you are getting out of Eloy. 17 �Connie (con’t): Yeah, there are some guards that were going over there at that time. In their mind, they were upscaling. But yeah 100% same as Florence. Florence was really different from my first time through Florence. I was only there a few hours before they moved me from Florence into Eloy. My second time, though, my understanding is the rule. I went back to a county and then tried to have to come through again. And my understanding was that there's some rule in ICE, where they can only hold you in the holding facilities for a certain amount of hours. So, they literally took me from Phoenix to Florence, Florence to Phoenix, Phoenix to Florence, Florence to Eloy, and so I was part of that balance and stuff. So yeah, Florence was much nicer, I guess, then Eloy ever was. I’m very surprised that there's not more deaths in Eloy than there are. I mean we had an 85-year-old Chilean woman, who should have never been detained a day in her damn life. Let alone those with such mental issues that they shouldn't have been incarcerated in a facility that couldn’t support their mental health, whatsoever. And witnessing some of that stuff, schizophrenia. You know there was a young girl in there that had conversations going on with four or five people at any given time. Schizophrenic, but if I said to her you just need to be quiet for the guard right now. Okay, and then she’d start off the conversations again. But those kinds of things, the guards didn't have empathy for. And I get it’s from a lack of understanding. But, by the same token, it doesn't mean that you don't have any empathy for what they're going through. But mental health wise, if you had said to me, what should we fix first? In my mind it's the mental health state. The physical stuff I think the body can almost sort of heal itself, and get enough fresh air and maybe the water as long as it's not too far gone. But in my opinion, the mental health state, and especially when they come back out. Same principle, it's the mental health state that's going to take more of them out. And the emotional support, they don't know how to tell their children why they're detained. They don't know how to tell their children that they don't know Mexico, but they're going back to a country they don't even know themselves for Pete's sake. Or they don't know how to tell their children: “Hey, you're here with Aunt Carol, but I’m going back to Guatemala, because this country doesn't want me here.” They don't know how to articulate it because they don't understand it. And yet, in their mind, they're doing what they know to be the best. Some of that even being able to help articulate some of helping them with the words and the understanding of what's going on. We had this is one story that the child was brought to the mother, the mother was being freed. The child was brought to the mother and the child clung to the guard’s leg and wouldn’t go to the mother. And the mother was a basket case. I happened to be up in intake that night. The child is sticking to the guard because, in the child's mind, the mother abandoned it. And the guard became a safe place. And that’s sick. And, like I said, even when President Biden was awarded the presidency to get those messages saying, “Does this mean there's hope for me now?” I’m sorry I almost just spoke Spanish, but I literally told them just wait, just wait. That's all I could 18 �say at that time because there's still so many that don't know where their children are. From even when I was pulled. I was there from September 2017 to July 2018, and there's still some that are being reunited at this point. Greer: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Connie: No go ahead. Greer: I was just going to say you were there, I think you alluded to this earlier, but you were detained during some of the rollout and height of the zero tolerance, the family separation policy. And I remember a lot of stories like what you just alluded to with the young, with young children, in particular. And so, you must have been detained with quite a few women and parents who had been separated from their children? Is that? Was that the case? Connie: Yeah, hundred percent. It’s like that night that they brought most of them in, the ladies. And the one guard woke me up and said “Say something to them, to get them to quiet down.” And my words to her, to be blunt with this group, was literally: “What the fuck would you like me to say? You just took their kids from them.” And I literally called it out like that. And so, we did sit down at the tables. I don't know if any of you've ever been in the pod, but we did sit down at the tables at that point. And I was just like you know what in the morning (and I showed them the ICE form that we could fill up for information), in the morning, I will help you do this. “Your children are just thinking, this is a big sleepover” is exactly how I articulated it. “Your children think this is a big sleepover so now, you need to sleep and I will help you in the morning.” And literally once those cell doors popped open in the morning, it's like: “Okay, I was picked up, I was separated from my child.” And you know: “What's your child's name?” I could get names, you know but Date of birth? And it was our understanding from. So then literally put that form in a box. Wait 48 hours to get a form back that says there's not enough information here. Go back to that mother. “There's not enough information.” And of course, I’m looking at the guys that come around the pod from ICE like, “What more information do you need?” And, of course, they don't have the answers because they're just literally filling a stroll through a pod. And so, sometimes it was just it was crazy. I didn't know what to ask the mothers, what ICE needed to be able to tell us where that particular child was there. “Will you give us their alien number?” The mother knows their child’s number how, exactly? When she has literally yet to receive her own alien number per se on some of the forms and paperwork. And so yeah, that was just a totally crazy time. I have never heard screams like I did that night. I’ve never heard women wail like I did that night. And for nights after. Literally I mean those poor ladies just sat there at tables and cried like the whole time they're out. Getting them to eat, getting them to do any kind of showers and stuff like that. I mean the one guards like “Connie, you got to get them there.” Shoes have very much rubber soles, and the Guatemalans didn't wear socks. I don't know if they didn't know what they were, but the stench was fairly strong, and getting them to shower was even a handful of a thing. 19 �But yeah, I was right there when that happened and literally watching some of the reports, you to know where it says. You know but there's still some, I know there's two in my group that have not been reunified. That they don't have a clue where their children are. The only peace that they can have is that their children are on the American side. And, therefore, hopefully, having a better life than what they could have given them on the southern side. Yes, I was 100% there for that whole thing. Greer: Thank you for sharing that. That's horrifying. I’ve worked at the Florence Project since January 2017. I remember that time very well. And thank you for sharing that. Connie: I think some of their stories need to be told. I met a lady whose feet were torched, so she couldn’t run from those that were abusing them. Like once I started helping with some of the asylum paperwork, which can be very laborious. And articulating their stories out. Even though with no documented proof, which makes it a bear. I mean I couldn't take a camera picture of her feet to submit it with the court documents. We didn't have any camera, you know, for that to prove that her feet were literally torched by her torturers. But when I was able to start sharing, when I was comfortable enough, and it took me a long time, two or three years before I could talk about the emotion. Even still, there are stories that kill me. I came back to a great country. I’m deported for 10 years. I can fill out an I-12, and I could cross tomorrow if I wanted to. Like all of that stuff is good for me, but then I will say like sharing some of their stories and some of the things and some of the choices they have to make. I’ve even had some of the folks call me about that mother running her child through the tear gas picture that was huge there for a while. I was like: if you were given the choice of someone chopping your child's fingers off, because you refuse to let them transport drugs or do drugs with you, or whatever, versus running them through tear gas, I hope to hell you’d run them through tear gas too. They're making the choices that they think is right for their children and mind blowing enough there's so many that have been deported to the Mexican side and are back across illegally again. I can't fault them for that. Because they're trying to get back to their families. They're trying to get back to the life they knew. And they're trying to get back to those that they associate with love. And so many of them take that risk, and through the coyote system or through the tunnel system. And you know. “Erase this message, but (Connie), just know I’m making a run for it now.” It's like just: “Let me know when you're on the other side" kind of situation. But you know I have to applaud their tenacity, to go forward again, and their resilience. I’m realizing what's important, and that is being with their children. And having their children in a country that they deem to be safe. Yet it's that country that's put them in the situation. So, it's kind of crazy. You know, and so, all I can do is support them like: “Let me know when you get on the other side and I’ll send you a few hundred dollars to get you started.” And that's all I can say to them at that time. 20 �Greer: I have a question for you about some of the people that you met who had recently arrived across the border. One of the things that we hear a lot is that people don't really know what awaits them when they come to the US to present for asylum. For instance, they don't understand that they're going to be detained. They don't understand the court system. Is that consistent with what you heard from the people that you knew when you were detained? And the people you know. Connie: Yeah, even if you know, you didn't know. So again, the paperwork when you're in Phoenix says: “Would you like to see an immigration judge as soon as possible or would you like to see one within 48 hours?” Given those two options you pick I want to see one as soon as possible. Wrong answer. 48 hours is the right answer. Soon as possible means you fit into the court system and you could be two or three weeks before you get to see a judge. And so that again that goes back to the whole tricky articulation. I didn't even catch the damn thing because “soon as possible” to me what have been the right answer. So many come in and say okay, you know, like yeah, I’m here tonight and it's nice to meet you all in the general living area or whatever. And you know I’ll take your numbers and stuff because I’m going to get out soon. And we all come in, I did too, in my mind I was going to be there three or four days. Dang it and someone was going to get me out of there and because, why am I staying here? I’ve been in this country for 16 years. I have a thriving business, you know. So just no one understands the longevity of it all. Literally when they get there, you also don't want to be the spirit killer that says “Okay, get comfy. Because you are going to be here for a while.” Versus, you know, like you, don't want to be the one that pushes them over that edge because most people in my area are not familiar with detainment. Let alone the jail system, and so. And then you know: How do I make a phone call? And, like some of that stuff just became huge conversations at the very beginning. Let alone, making sure that they had all the basic needs met as in having toilet paper and that kind of stuff. But no one gets it. And I can't even imagine those that are on the Mexican side right now being held there and not being allowed to touch ground to come over and claim asylum and fear for their lives. I can't even imagine those encampments at this point. Based on even my experience in Eloy where at least we had shelter and at least we had running water and at least we had some, you know, luxuries, for lack of better words. And I have two that are in those encampments that every once in a while, we'll touch base and they are waiting. I’m like, God love you for waiting, but what are their alternatives? Wait or die? And so you would wait too. I can't even imagine those that are sitting there in those tent cities, for lack of better words, or whatever you guys are calling them now, fence cities. Because it's mind blowing but no one understands that you know even my case, 10 months, you sit there, and you think I can fight this for a little bit. And then sure enough it's like okay well. You know no lie. I have two girls that said, because I have the alternative lifestyle, we’ll marry you. 21 �Okay, great, and you can get married in Eloy. But then by time you get the marriage certificate, the marriage right. Then prove to immigration that this isn't just a hoax to get your immigration papers. And then go through that whole process. You, literally sit there going from you know here's my court date and then it's like well, I am going to present to judge in my case, I think, present to you today. “Okay well Miss ______ we’ll book you in for the next quarter. Please have this, and this, and this.” Okay great so here's a four-week period. We're just detained with nothing else. And then here's another form, and then you go to that court. And they will have this judge, and I’m really looking to get my bond lower. Okay, well then, we'll reschedule you for a second hearing to get your bond lower rather than doing this while we're all still sitting there. And so, here comes another four weeks and now I’m in a second bond hearing. Well, here's your new bond Miss ______. And I told you I’ve got it lowered by $2000. Okay, well, thank you judge. Okay, well good to see you, and if we don't have any answers, if you haven't bonded by this day we'll have another court hearing. Okay, well here's another four weeks. And so, the structure of it all is just crazy that way when it comes to that. And I mean, I know that you guys have the statistics that most of those that bond out don't show up for pete's sakes. You know, and so it's kind of like “just put an ankle monitor on me” and let me get back to my life so that I can close my bank account, so that I can close my house, so I can sell my car, so that I can pack up my stuff. I was no risk to the community. That was said even by the immigration people. You know that kind of stuff was just like it was crazy. No, just put her on a plane at three o'clock, and roll her up at three o'clock in the morning, so no one knows she's leaving. And you know, keep her awake for 72 hours when we put her across the border. And crazy enough from the demographic standpoint. I live above upstate New York, but when I first got home, I was going up above West Virginia. And yet, immigration makes it very clear, they could have dumped me above Washington state, if they wanted to. It's the closest border point to whatever is convenient for them. Now, thankfully, my very first night free I slept in the trauma station, which would be much like sleeping in the Phoenix bus station and the Greyhound station. And so, it's mind blowing, it's very real. They dump you, and they don't check to make sure even coming across this border. They won’t get you a hotel room for the night when I made my first call. And I can't even prove who I am. I didn't have IDs. Nothing. They don't give you anything. We're going to send you some Western Union money. I love you for that. I can't get it. All I could get was literally the commissary that had been put under my books, before I departed. So, I had two hundred American dollars, which, on the Canadian currency’s pretty good money because our dollar sucks. And so, it was $260 Canadian. But literally those that's why those chicks going into Nogales and stuff like they get off that bus and what else are they going to do. If they can sell themselves, drug trafficking, make some money doing that, sex 22 �trafficking that's what they're going to do. And that's why we've lost as many as we have in the course of four years, probably 12, in Nogales alone, in Sonora. (Connie con’t): And then my Filipino girl was just, she gave up because it’s not like she can’t just run across the border; she has to get on plane to get back here. So, I have one in India right now that's teetering too, as matter of fact. So, it's just a crazy thing. Did they bring it on themselves? 100%. But, by the same token, did anybody ever sit them down and say this is how you do it. No, because you can't. And I’m not trying to slight lawyers and judges and the Florence Project. But I mean you guys have seen it, too. Every case is completely different. You never know. You get Judge Davis and you're like oh! You get Linda Spencer Walters and you're like oh! You know, depending on what judge you have there's no consistency in the system. And there's no path. There's no path that says this is your first step; this is your next step. Expect this is your second step. There's no path for them, because it all just depends on now that guy’s feeling on the other side of the bench that day. And we saw that time and time again, time and time again. We all actually pray for morning courts, because we knew by afternoon, they're going to be pissy. And, myself included. And so, and I shared in one of the emails to you, Daniel, I literally watched a mother who has three sons. All served in Afghanistan, and served the United States, three American sons. She lost one son during one of the wars. Her fourth son was getting ready to deploy. She begged that judge in that court: “Please just let me have a 48-hour pass, so I can hug my son before he deploys to serve the United States of America.” And that judge made total eye contact with her, and I will never forget it, and said, “Thank your son for his service. But he must not be very proud of you.” And I tell you I’ve never seen a woman be as crushed as she was that day. I didn't even know what to say. There are just times when I didn't know what I can say. There's nothing I can say to you. All I can do is sit beside you, and let you know that I’m sitting beside you, and I heard you that's it. It's mind blowing and so when it comes to that whole racism stuff. Some of them are fairly guarded against it, as well. And I understand it. I do, I can see it from both sides, I mean you've got folks in the country that are breaking the law that aren’t there legally. That are taking from systems, you know, taking advantage of the food stamps, of the WIC system. But by the same token, let's not generalize and categorize them all. David: Well, this has been really amazing, thank you for your time, and thank you for just being so thorough in your description. It’s really been enlightening, I think, in part because you really articulately put together lots of different components. You know we get a lot of really amazing and heart-rending descriptions from people that are very much their individual experience. And there'll be observations as well. But your capacity to sort of talk about your own experience, and the way you've been observant of other people's circumstance, I think, really connects and validates a lot of the other descriptions that we've received from people. I think it's a really important way that you've unpacked all of this. 23 �Connie: It’s 100% about them, I was good. I mean there's no other way of putting it 100%. David: What's your other line of work? You said you have a sort of regular day job as well. Connie: So, my regular company is called ______, thank you for asking. And it literally is all about marketing and social media for entrepreneurs and home-based businesses. I don't know why I always take the underdog, but I guess I do it. So God loves them, those home-based businesses are teetering between being a real business or a hobbyist. So we do a lot of training for them. I do a lot of training for them when it comes to keeping track of their businesses and helping businesses grow, and a lot of marketing stuff and so on. David: Do you connect people with things like financing and stuff like that as well? Connie: I do my best to connect some of them with financing. A lot of them, more with websites and social media strategies, and how to really connect with people and not come across as “Hey, I have a phone bill or Cox bill that needs to be paid today and so hook me up with the sale.” And so, literally relationship marketing is the more of a category that I am trying to steer them down. But we have a zoom. I will say COVID was a blessing for even for my business because. We used to have in person meetings, and I had a separate one for my Arizona gang that I just never got to. Because I saw the presence down there, thankfully. But zoom was great that way, because the Canadians that I was quickly able to meet and associate with and build up in the four years. So now we have a zoom meeting with 35 to 50 people every Wednesday. and then after that it just spent time loving on them a little bit and then answer my Mexicans when they text me weird hours of maintenance mode. Yeah, it’s all marketing. It's a fun little thing. David: Well, I mean it makes perfect sense sort of the way you've laid everything out like the what you do professionally ends up really benefiting people who you are advocating for. And vice versa, your empathy and your communication abilities just shine through, so it's so cool to see how you've managed to work both of those things. Connie: Well, thank you, I appreciate that big time. If I can ever rally the troops to help out, especially when it comes to the Florence Project, I’m all in. There are a couple of really neat organizations that are on the smaller side in Arizona that do backpacks for children and stuff like that. And I can't even imagine how many people are at the border looking for asylum. Greer: The situation at the border is really, really tough right now. Connie: I’ve got two there, and even the picture, some of the pictures. And some of the stuff that we see from them and even getting to them in there, in the same situation. I can't walk across the border and deliver. But it's not like they can go somewhere pick up what I send them either, and so. Boy oh boy that struggle is real for a lot of them. There's one house in 24 �Nogales that I help support that we have 10 to 15 people living in at any given time, God love us. I don't necessarily know what's going on in the walls, which it's probably okay. Connie: And when I drive down it will be Rocky Point for me because, at least that way, I know that I’m safe. I understand the extortion, and I understand the risk with a white girl coming in there and stuff. So, they'll have to come to where I am, but if we can do anything I have an amazing tribe, and my tribe is growing. Now I can talk about it. February was the very first time, and I did share with everybody in that that retreat that I’m very much a multitasker. I can cry and talk at the same time, so just let me go. And so, I bawled a whole hour and a half. I had pictures, thankfully. Pictures of the meal tray, and pictures of the cells and what they look like. And so, taking them literally they're based on the pictures, I was able to find on Google of the facility. It was mind blowing for a lot of them to actually see it. Because I think in some folks’ minds, we are getting three meals a day, we have hot water, and we're living it. You know, rather than no we're screaming. No, we're screaming and someone just cut themselves. And someone else's threatening to kill somebody else. So, like it makes a big difference that way. I’m all in 100% if I can do anything. And if you ever need connections to the Hispanic or the Guatemalan population or some of those folks that have come back across with a coyote, and you want to interview those folks safely, they will trust me, and I can make those connections. Greer: Thank you so much. We would definitely love to stay in touch with you and keep talking to you, you know about your experience and how we can work with you. You know we're working. You know we have a team now down at the border as well, so we're working down there and then obviously still doing our core work, working with people who are detained so yeah, we'd love to stay in touch with you. Connie: Awesome yeah and I know I welcome that, in a heartbeat. In a heartbeat. Greer Millard (she/her): Wonderful. Connie: It’ll make me feel like I’m still good too, so I appreciate that connection big time. Grounds me out. Connie: Awesome well, I look forward to getting the recording then, and if I can educate and help everyone. Greer): Thank you for sharing and your time. It was really great. Susan: Really appreciate it. Daniel: Yeah, this is a really exciting um connection that I made so we're grateful. Connie: Yeah, thank you Daniel it's your fault, but thank you. Connie: Appreciate it big time. 25 �Connie: Thanks guys. Alright talk soon. Susan/Greer/ David: Wow! Greer: Want to end the recording. 26 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Connie Description An account of the resource Connie, a Canadian immigrant, shares her experience ending up in immigration detention because of a bench warrant. She talks about the discrimination she observed against non-English speaking migrants, her own deportation, and the work she has done both in detention and after as an advocate for migrants. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_005 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Arizona--Phoenix New York (State)--Albany Canada Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020- LGBTQ+ discrimination Solitary confinement White nationalism Suicide Language A language of the resource English https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/568fdd96c4dd4f04b60dd9deba3db03c.mp3 47c401cd32c1d21a332b05225f9c73a0 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/01e0df24bb2585eba4d61086a649b238.pdf 63aee96f346bc8458ab58b817fdb9755 PDF Text Text 1 Daniel: Alright, we’re all here. Elvín I’m here with my friends Francisco, David, and Anita. Francisco: How are you Elvín? Elvín: Hi there. Daniel: Elvín, thanks. Francisco’s going to talk more than me, but thank you. Francisco: Elvin, I’m sure Daniel already described our project a bit to you, but the idea behind it is to collect the voices and experiences of people who have been detained, and who’ve crossed the border to arrive here. We’re seeking to make an archive of these voices, these stories, to save for people who have an interest in this subject. To begin, I just want to confirm that you’re agreeing to talk with us, to take part in this project, and to have this conversation recorded? Elvín: Yes, as long as it’s for those uses. It’s just that, as I told him (Daniel), lately I’ve been the target of a lot of scams (estafas). I’ve fallen for them many times and this most recent one was really ugly. I felt bad because they took advantage of my migratory status. They were able to scam me this way. Francisco: What is estafa? Elvín: Telephone scams. First they scammed me by phone when I was trying to buy a car, since I didn’t have any experience with this, they were able to cheat me out of $2,000 Francisco: Ah, estafa is fraud. Elvín: They also scammed me because of my migratory status. They almost got me, I fell for it because I basically had little understanding of these things and so I went for it. But then I heard that it was a scam. Francisco: That’s so unfortunate. And I can confirm that we won’t use your name, everything is anonymous. I hope this problem doesn’t continue for you! �2 Elvín: Yea, that’s why I mentioned it to you. Daniel: We’re going to keep your information safe, and we don’t need money or anything, I’m so sorry that happened to you. In the US there’s a lot of people who try this, who want to do things like this, and it’s unfortunate there’s people like that out there. Francisco: Let’s begin. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your life before you came to the United States. Where are you from and what was your life like before you started thinking about coming here? Elvín: I was born in Guatemala in a town called Verapaz. There are lots of reasons I came here. To live there, when I was there, was really hard because I pretty much had to start working at about six years old. I still remember that I was really small. I had to work in the fields with my grandpa, because I think that—my god, I can’t even remember exactly how old I was when my dad left to come here to the United States. When he came to the United States he only talked to us for maybe two months. After these two months he never talked to us again and from that point on we never heard from him again. He literally abandoned us because the only person who provided for us was my grandpa, but my grandpa was very strict. He was one of those people who….it wasn’t like it is now, now if you beat a kid you’ll end up getting the police called on you or you’ll get sent somewhere. But back then my grandpa was very strict. At six years old I had to start working because he said if I didn’t work, I didn’t eat. I had to work so that we could eat, so that my siblings could eat, my mom, too. Because she was a woman, she couldn’t work. In the time I was working there, I suffered a lot, I was abused by my grandpa because I didn’t know how to do the work. I was so small, it didn’t stick in my head. He was one of those people you learn good and bad lessons from. He would hit you in whatever way he could. He’d grab sticks, whatever he had. He hit to me hard. �3 During this time we didn’t hear anything from my dad. There were days when we didn’t even eat. And through all this, when I became maybe ten or eleven years old, I had to go work in the capital of Guatemala to harvest coffee. For this work I think they paid you, I’m not sure, maybe it was three or four dollars a day. That’s what they paid there in Guatemala City. I had to work there, far away from my family. I’d go there for three months, far away from them, and then return, turn in my earnings to my grandpa and then go back to work again. During this time my dad came back, I think this was when I was about twelve years old. He came back because they deported him. He returned home, and when he came back it was hell because he drank and he wasn’t one of these people who gets drunk and falls asleep. No, he would hit my mom, my siblings, me. He beat us. What hurt the me most was to see my mom. When he hit her I would intervene and then I’d end up getting hit even more. It was like that for two years. After these two years there was a gang in my town. They weren’t thieves, but they were the ones who controlled the neighborhood, and they wanted me to join because they were recruiting people. Since I was the right age, I was big enough, they wanted me to join. I didn’t want to. I didn’t want that life. I don’t want that, I grew up working, I earned my money with my own sweat and to do something like that wasn’t what I wanted. I told them that I didn’t want to and they began to threaten me. They asked if I wanted in or not—and that if I didn’t want in they’d kill me. They pretty much told me that I could join them, and if not, they’d kill me. After that was when I decided to come here, to seek a better life. There were things people told me about [immigrating here], that it was really beautiful and all that. I thought it must be true. At home we didn’t even have a bed when we were little. What’s more, our house didn’t even have walls. We didn’t even have a bed or a toilet. That’s when I decided to come here, and because of the fear I had that they’d kill me. I didn’t want to join this group, but they were insisting. I think they had been insisting for a month when I finally decided to come here. �4 They told me that if I left to come here, my family would still be left behind, my brother and my sister would still be there. They said that no matter if I came or not they would find ways to hurt me. I came here and I suffered a little when I arrived because I went to live with my uncle and he was one of those people who barely scraped by in the US, he hardly had any money back then. I went to school when I arrived here and that was something I enjoyed. I wanted to finish school here, but I couldn’t. Francisco: Sorry, but in order to get here, what was the trip like? How did you arrive? Did you cross through Mexico? What was your experience like at the border and all that? Elvín: I had to pay someone who brought me from Guatemala to the United States border. It was a really ugly trip because I had never traveled by car before. I was one of those people who went everywhere by foot all my life. I was very poor there in Guatemala. It’s too bad I don’t have a photo of where I lived before, because my parents sold it, it’s not theirs anymore. If I did I would show it to you, it was a little house with a roof and that’s it. I wasn’t accustomed to traveling by car and when we set out in the car, I started throwing up. I vomited and vomited. All along the way this happened to me. From when we crossed Guatemala until we arrived at the Mexican border, all this was by car. Once we made it to Mexico we had to walk on foot to get close to the Mexican border. We had to cross through the mountains, it was a horrible experience because people were coming after us. Who knows who they were. Our guides just told us to run and hide, but I didn’t know who I was hiding from. Today I still pay attention to what happens in Mexico. People don’t only have to run from the police, but from outlaws too. There are thieves in the mountains that try to grab migrants to take their money or hold them ransom. I don’t know if that’s who we were running from. Before we got to Mexico, after about a day and maybe four hours of traveling in the truck, I had passed out or fallen asleep from all the vomiting, so I’m not really sure how we arrived in El Paso. All I know is that they told me that I was vomiting a lot, and that I �5 crashed next to all the other people in the truck. Francisco: So did you make it to the US border by bus after all this? Elvín: No, not on a bus. Francisco: And when you were up in the mountains, you didn’t run into Border Patrol? You made it all the way to the other side without getting caught by immigration agents? Elvín: In Mexico they were never able to catch us. There were police or there were gangs, I never knew who we were running from, we were just told to run. Today I’ve realized that a lot of people die in Mexico because of the gangs that kidnap people and hold them for ransom. I think that’s who we were running from back then. And I said that I came by truck, but it wasn’t a pickup truck or a bus or anything like that. I don’t know if you’ve seen those trailers, the big semi-trucks like the ones that transport Coca-Cola. That’s the kind of truck I’m talking about, there were 150 of us packed inside. Francisco: How many people? Elvín: 150. They crammed a bunch of people in there so that everyone would be standing up next to one another, so that no one would get tossed side to side, so we’d all be packed tight enough that people wouldn’t move. That’s how I reached the border, in one of those semi trailers. Then we got out and crossed the river—what’s it called again? Francisco: The Rio Grande or Río Bravo. Elvín: Yeah, the Río Bravo. We crossed the river and I stepped foot in the United States. Just getting across the border we got lost in the mountains for about twelve hours I think. And even before that it had been another twelve hours since we had eaten anything or had any water. We spent a whole night sleeping up in the mountains because we were lost, but here on the U.S. side of the border. I was already in the �6 United States, at that point I could turn myself over to the Border Patrol to be arrested, but we were so lost that Border Patrol never even found us. We kept walking, after we got up we walked just the same as before, and we realized we’d been walking in a circle. We were back where we began. So finally we decided to just sit down there and wait until Border Patrol arrived. Francisco: And how did the agents treat you? I imagine they took you to a processing center? Elvín: Yeah. In fact, from the time Border Patrol found me things were pretty calm. It was a relief for me. I was afraid because I’d never seen anything like that. But they never mistreated us or anything, the ones who mistreated us were the agents at the crossing between Guatemala and Mexico, they really treated us bad. There were days when they wouldn’t give us anything to eat. But arriving here in the US the immigration agents treated us well, they brought me right away to a shelter. I think I stayed there for one month and fifteen days. Francisco: In Phoenix? Elvín: No, in Texas, I don’t know what the place was called. I think it might have been El Paso. And after that they sent me to be with my uncle. Daniel: How were things for you in the…shelter? Elvín: Sorry, what? Daniel: I’m not sure what to call it, but how were things for you in Texas? Elvín: Oh, when I arrived there I didn’t want to leave! Because it was a way of living…I mean, compared with everything I lived through in Guatemala….I arrived there and they would wake you up in the morning, they’d bring you to eat breakfast, then they’d bring you to school and you’d get out in the afternoon. They’d let you out to play, afterward you’d go back in and take a shower, and you could go to church if you wanted. I wanted to stay there for a long time [laughs], but I was only there for a month �7 and fifteen days. That’s it. But yeah, it was really nice to be in there. Francisco: It’s so interesting, Elvín, because we’ve talked with a lot of people who’ve been in adult detention centers, but this was a shelter for young people, for minors. We’re really interested in hearing about the conditions there. It seems like you could leave the shelter to go take classes or to go to church, or was all of that inside the facility? Elvín: It was inside the shelter. They had people taking care of the kids in groups, and they would take me to class, they would take me to church. I couldn’t do whatever I wanted, that’s true, but for me that was fine. To get to school and to eat, that was the life! Daniel: Were there lots of Guatemalans there? Elvín: Lots. There were a bunch of Guatemalans. From the same town where I’m from, there was only one other person, but there were many from Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras. There were lots of kids there. Francisco: How long ago was this? What year was it? Elvín: This was in like 2015, I think I entered the shelter in June or July, because it was August by the time I arrived here at my uncle’s. Francisco: So this was before Trump and all that? Elvín: Yeah, before all that. It was before that whole thing. Right now I have no idea what’s happening there. But compared to before, it’s not the same anymore. Francisco: So the conditions were more or less good? You didn’t experience cold temperatures or any of those things other detainees talk about—being cold, having bad food, abuse from guards, these kinds of things? Elvín: The place where I was cold was in the…I’m not sure what to call the place where they first brought me. This was with the agents, the place they brought me to. �8 Francisco: The icebox? (hielera in Spanish, colloquial slang for Border Patrol holding cells) Elvín: That’s it. I was definitely cold there. Honestly I don’t know why it’s so cold there. Why don’t they just turn off the air conditioning, that’s what I say? People like us from Guatemala come from a climate that’s not as hot as here, so I imagine maybe those agents are…well, the climate here is different, in Texas I don’t know how how hot it gets but here in Phoenix sometimes it gets up to 110 degrees. It’s hot as hell, and inside they keep things cold. Maybe for those agents it’s normal, but for us it’s not normal because we’re from a more temperate climate, so when they put the air on to make it cold, they make it really cold. I can’t remember how long I spent in that place, I think it was just one day or one night, nothing more than that. After that they brought me somewhere next to the “Federal,” something like that, I’m not sure what it’s called. I think it’s something like that. Francisco: Yeah, the icebox or the dog pound (perrera in Spanish, another colloquial slang for Border Patrol holding facilities), it’s like the main Border Patrol holding facility where everyone arrives before they’re sent to long-term detention? Elvín: Yea, so first they brought me to the icebox, then after that to the dog pound. There in the dog pound I think I spent about two days. Two days or more, I’m not sure, but it wasn’t as cold there, but it’s sad to see the other children there because lots of them are really small, they can’t even talk and they still have them locked up in there. It’s a painful thing to see, but from there they brought me to the shelter. Francisco and Daniel: [speaking at the same time] Francisco: Sorry Daniel, go ahead. Daniel: Sure, sorry. So, sometimes our clients describe that the food is horrible and that there isn’t drinking water, things like this. But this wasn’t something you experienced, or was it? �9 Elvín: Yeah, well, when I was in the immigration facility I did. Because you’d be hungry and they’d just give you a fucking sandwich like this, with bread that’s all—the lettuce inside would be all rotten. That kind of thing was normal there. I think the others spent a lot longer time there and suffered a lot for it. Yeah, the food the immigration agents give you is really nasty, but the food in the shelter—and why would I lie to you unless it’s the truth—they give you good food in the shelter. There in the shelter, that’s the life. Daniel: Yeah. And everyone responds differently there, sometimes young people don’t socialize because they’re very independent, and maybe they just want to reach their families. So how were your conversations with the other young people there? Can you describe these interactions? Elvín: The truth is that I was one of these people that didn’t talk much. I was very timid and I still feel this way now, but not as much as before. I didn’t talk to anyone, but in the shelter there was one person that I got along with, who spoke the same language as me. Because I’ve got my [indigenous] language too, and he spoke a dialect almost identical to mine. Francisco: What’s your language called? Elvín: Achi. Francisco: Achi? Elvín: Yea, it’s from Guatemala. Daniel: How did you learn Spanish? Elvín: In Guatemala I only completed first grade. I just went to elementary school, that’s it. I learned to read a little and a little Spanish. But since I didn’t go out and didn’t like to talk to anyone, I never really learned Spanish. When I arrived here in the United States, that’s when I learned Spanish. I learned it from the Mexicans because I had a Mexican girlfriend too, so I learned her style of Spanish and a little bit of the US-style Spanish. They’re a little mixed for us. Sometimes I talk to people there in Guatemala �10 and they tell me, “We don’t even know what language you’re speaking. It’s not even Spanish, you talk so weird!” (Laughs). Francisco: Like “a huevo guey!” (Mexican slang for “hell yea dude!”). Stuff like that? Elvín: Yeah. I learned bits and pieces of all kinds of Spanish, because the Mexicans speak Spanish differently. It’s a little bit heavier the way they speak. In Guatemala we speak differently too. Here in the United States the Spanish gets all mixed, so people talk differently here too. Francisco: Totally. Well, you learned it really well! Elvín: There are words that give me a hard time, still, because I’ve got my own language, and sometimes when I talk a lot my own language come out of nowhere. (Laughs). It’s strange, I’ll just start talking in my language. Sometimes I don’t even think about it and a word comes out in my language. Francisco: It had to be really difficult if you didn’t know that much Spanish in some of those situations! Elvín: Yeah. That’s what I liked about the shelter, people really helped me a lot. Because sometimes they didn’t really understand me but they’d stay and take the time to fully understand what I was saying. It took a lot out of me, it’s true. It took a lot when I got out, too. When I went to school it was a challenge because I didn’t speak Spanish well, and the teachers didn’t understand me. One of them only spoke English. But the good thing about the school where I went is that the majority spoke Spanish even though classes weren’t taught in Spanish. Francisco: In the shelter were there people that watched out for you or helped translate for you? Was it more the other young people being held with you or was it more the teachers? Elvín: The people that looked over us, we called them teachers. They watched over us 24 hours a day. �11 Francisco: Oh, that’s so interesting… Elvín: Yeah, they were there with us. Each of them took care of maybe eight kids. We called them teachers, each teacher had eight kids. Four kids slept in each room, so each teacher was in charge of two rooms. At night they stayed around to watch after us. We could never sleep with the door closed, we always had to keep the door open so this person could watch us all night. They would stay right there in front of the door and watch us from there the whole night. Then in the morning when we got up the person from the night shift wasn’t there, it would be a different person, and this person would be the one in charge of us during the whole day. Francisco: And did you really feel like these people were more like teachers than guards? Or was that just the word they wanted you to use? Elvín: For me they were more like a teacher, because the truth is they helped me a lot. It’s not like other places or like immigration detention. In those places if they didn’t understand you they’d yell at you and say “What!?” And that makes you scared to repeat things. But they’re not like that [in the shelter]. They take the time to ask you things several times. With me, I had a hard time speaking Spanish. My words wouldn’t come out right, but they would understand me. Francisco: That’s so interesting, like I said, we haven’t heard much about these shelters. What was a normal day like there? Elvín: In the shelter? Francisco: Yea, what was a regular day like from the time you woke up until the end of the day? Elvín: This is one of the things I most liked about being there. Like I said, in the morning they would wake you up at about 6 a.m. You get up, you brush your teeth, you get changed. They give you shorts and a T shirt, that’s it. So you join your group and �12 get in line to eat. So you’re behind the others and you go walking into the cafeteria— that’s what they call it, “the cafeteria.” Not everyone enters at the same time. I think they let maybe 50 kids in first and then the rest go in to eat afterwards, because there’s a lot of kids there. So you go in. I think to eat they would give us eggs, cereal, an apple, and two little cartons of milk. That was it, then we ate. After that we’d go back to our rooms. They’d give us about half an hour there to wash up and return to school—we’d go to school. And from there we’d get out of school around 3 p.m. The school is right there inside. The place is big, they’ve got it all—fields to play sports, everything, even a place to play video games. But to play video games you had to behave well. I think you had to reach fifteen days. If you didn’t have any bad reports they’d bring you to play video games or even watch a movie. From the time we went to school I think we were there for…I’m not sure how many hours, but we’d get out at more or less 3 p.m. I think we’d have math, art, English, and I’m not sure what the other two were…they gave us five different classes. Then after we got back to our rooms again, we’d change and they’d bring us out to play again outside. Outside you could play whatever you want, but you had to go with the whole group. If you wanted to play ball, the others in your group had to go too, because you couldn’t just go off to the side to play on your own. And then after this, I think we’d play outside for about half an hour, they’d put us inside, we’d shower, change, and afterwards they’d bring us to eat again in the cafeteria. We’d eat and after we’d return to the rooms to sleep. That’s what a day’s like there. Daniel: That’s so interesting. So you had an uncle in Arizona. They were able to find him and then you were able to go live with him? Elvín: Yeah, while I was there they were investigating my uncle to see if he met the �13 requirements for me to go live with him. I think my uncle sent in all the papers, because you spend more time there if the person who’s going to receive you doesn’t meet the requirements or they don’t send in all of the papers they’re asked for, you have to stay there longer, but since he sent in all the papers quickly, I only spent a month and fifteen days there. Francisco: How did it feel, Elvín, that moment when you were finally able to leave the shelter? Elvín: Well, to be totally honest I didn’t want to leave! (Laughs). Truly, I didn’t want to leave. I wanted to spend more time there. But at the same time I was excited to meet my uncle. But I really wanted to stay there with my friends. Daniel: I imagine it could be scary to meet an uncle you didn’t really know and go live with him. Elvín: I wasn’t afraid. If there was one emotion I carried, it had been 14 years since I’d seen him I think, I’m not sure. So I didn’t know him anymore, I had no idea how he was. When I saw him I got emotional, because I hadn’t seen him in all this time. Now, he’s like a father to me here. He loves me a lot, I love him a lot, and he’s like a father to me. Daniel: Ah, that’s so nice. Elvín: In fact, he really is my dad here, because he won the case. They asked for a letter from my dad over there and he gave it—they signed the letter for my uncles to be my parents, so that [my guardians in Guatemala] wouldn’t be my parents anymore. Francisco: It’s like a guardianship? He has the same legal rights as a parent? Elvín: Yeah, that’s right. Daniel: And he’s the one who found the Florence Project? Elvín: Sorry? �14 Daniel: Did your uncle find out about the Florence Project? Elvín: I don’t really know much about that. I went to my first court hearing. The truth is that my uncle doesn’t even know how to read, he never went to school as a kid. I imagine that his childhood was even more painful than mine, because he never went to school. My uncle also didn’t know any Spanish when he got to the United States. So I went to my hearing. We didn’t have any experience in court. I barely understood Spanish and I didn’t understand when they told me that I had to go to court and to find my own lawyer. I didn’t understand any of that. So I don’t remember who it was. I think it was one of my uncle’s friends that told him I had to go to court—they asked me for a paper. They said “let me see those papers that they gave you,” and I showed them. And that’s where there was a court date shown, so they told me, “you’ve got to go to this address.” And so my uncle brought me to my first hearing. When we got to the courthouse a lady asked me if I had a lawyer and I told her, “no, I don’t have any lawyers.” And then my uncle was the one who talked with them, because I was really timid. We didn’t know about any of this stuff. When we left the courtroom was when we found someone from—no, wait, it wasn’t like that. The Florence Project, actually, they contacted my uncle. Yeah, it was the Florence project that reached out to my uncle. I don’t even know how it happened—I think the Florence project found out about me in the shelter? Daniel: That could be. Elvín: I’m not really sure. Daniel: Maybe they knew you were sent to Arizona and so they sought you out. I’m also interested in hearing a little more about how it was for you to start learning math, to arrive in Phoenix and have to go to school in Phoenix. That’s where you met your wife, too? Elvín: That’s right. When my uncle told me “you have to go to school because you �15 have to study,” I told him, “alright, that’s fine.” So I showed up at a school called North High School. This school is one that has like 80% hispanic students I think, and the teachers too. Yeah, it’s a nice school, because the majority of the students just speak Spanish. You feel like you’re at home, like it’s something normal, no big deal. It’s something that surprised me at times, because during my first year of studies they moved me up a level to “basic.” All my classmates, because we went in with a bunch of people that didn’t speak English, most of them stayed at one level. I think after you’re there for a six months at the school they give you a test to gauge how much English to see whether or not to move you up a level. I think there’s Intermediate, Basic, and I’m not sure what the other one is. So they moved me up to Basic. From Basic and on, I got nothing but good grades, because I enjoyed school so much. The only subject I never understood was—what were these classes called? Geometry, I think it’s called. I’m not sure what they call it, but I didn’t understand this class. By the end of the year I was able to get a B, that was the highest I could get. But it took a lot to get it and I never really understood it.. But one thing I really did understand was algebra, but after this class they moved me up to another level and I didn’t get it anymore. History, I had a history class too. I loved that class so much, because I got to hear the history of the United States, the pandemics that happened in the past, all the major events and all that. That was always my favorite class of the day. Daniel: Really? Elvín: Yeah, because I really like hearing about the history here. I want to know what this country is like, how it started, what happened during the wars, or the biggest war that happened here, how it began and all that. Since I didn’t totally understand English, there were words I didn’t understand, but I understood most of it and I really liked it. Francisco: Elvín, just to confirm some of the dates and years we’re talking about…you �16 left the shelter in 2015? But how much time were you there altogether? Elvín: In the shelter? Francisco: Yeah. Elvín: I entered the shelter in July, 2015, if I’ve got that right, and I left in August. I arrived here in Phoenix with my uncle in August. I’m not sure if it was August 3 or rd August 2 when I arrived at my uncle’s, but I do remember that it was really hot when I nd got here. Francisco: So, after more or less two months, you arrived in Phoenix in August. And what year were you when you started school? Were you in 8 grade or—? th Elvín: In the 9 grade. th Francisco: Ah, ok, Freshman year. So you were in high school. Elvín: Yeah, high school. I’m not sure exactly when kids go back to school, because they get out in May and go back in August. When I arrived [in Phoenix], I literally didn’t stay home at all, I think after my third day there I was already going to school. Francisco: Really? Elvín: As soon as I showed up I went straight to school. Francisco: And now you’re graduated, you’re done with high school and everything? Elvín: No, I couldn’t finish high school, I stopped at 11 grade. th Francisco: Ah, ok. And are you still trying to complete some of the requirements or did you stop trying? Elvín: Oof. My plan when I started studying was to get my degree, I wanted to have a career. With the job I have now, I wanted to become a technician, I mean architect. But when I met my girlfriend there at the school and we got together, we were renting an apartment. I didn’t like renting apartments, because they always give you a contract for �17 one year, or six months, and whenever they want they can kick you out. There weren’t any apartments like there used to be, with contracts, just ones with landlords like this. When there are landlords like this without any contract between you, they just say “trust me.” But then whenever they want they kick you out. I didn’t want that, I didn’t want to keep having to move from here to there. I still stuck with my studies for a year. My girlfriend and I, we stuck with it for a year. I worked at night and studied during the day. I slept three hours a night and that was it. I only lasted one year, I couldn’t handle it because my tiredness was killing me. I didn’t have time anymore to do my homework because I would just get home from school, eat something, sometimes I didn’t even eat before I had to go straight to work. I’d get back at 2 or 3 a.m., I’d sleep a little and then get up, I’d go to school and—I lasted a year and I couldn’t handle being so tired. After that my brother arrived and I couldn’t take him in. I was going to take him in as a minor the same way that my uncle took me in, but I couldn’t because my brother had already turned 18. So sadly he got sent to detention, an adult detention center instead of a shelter. Then he got out, I took him i., I pulled together everything they required from me, he got out, he was brought out here, and then he was here with me and there were three of us in the apartment. After that my sister decided to come, she decided to come because she was having problems with my dad. He didn’t want my sister to have a boyfriend. That’s what they said, I can’t confirm it because I didn’t see it. But they say that one day my sister was going to go out with her boyfriend, but when my dad found out, they say he was almost about to kill her, he was choking her. When I heard that, I became furious and I told my sister to come here to live with me because I didn’t want her to stay there any longer. And yeah, she was able to come here with me, she arrived, and I was able to take her in like a parent. They asked for a letter from my dad, and sent it to me. Now I have—what’s it called? How do they call it? I’m my sister’s legal guardian. At the same time my sister came, my wife’s sister also arrived, my wife is the one �18 who took her in. So there were three of us, then there was five of us in the same house. That’s when I left school because there were so many of us and the bills were piling up. I needed to look for a job that paid well, because I was doing cleaning work at the time and I was only making about twelve dollars an hour. I’d only earn $800 each pay period, same for my wife. She had the same job, and it wasn’t enough to cover our costs. What I decided to do was better, I decided to leave school for work. We started working in roofing, that’s what I’m doing now. We started roofing, my brother started working with me as a roofer too. After that, I think we spent another year paying rent, and then we decided to buy ourselves a house. Daniel: Congratulations my friend! Elvín: (Laughs). Thank you. It took a year to finish finally getting the house, because the requirements they ask of you to get a house. Daniel: Yeah, of course. Elvín: Yeah, so finally we got our house, I think we’ve been living in our house for a year now. Daniel: Congratulations to all of you: your sister, her boyfriend, your brother—and his wife? Elvín: Yeah, his wife. Daniel: There’s six of you altogether with your boy? Elvín: Six, yeah, there’s six of us. Francisco: Wow, congratulations. And Elvin, how are things now? You’re in the house with all of them. How does if feel to be there? What are your impressions of things now that everyone is together there? Elvín: This was the life I imagined when I was in Guatemala. I imagined the life I’m living now. That’s also the reason I came here because I wanted a better future. I �19 wanted to have a family. I wanted to care for my siblings. I wanted to get them away from my father so that he wouldn’t be able to abuse us anymore. I succeeded, thank god. I was able to accomplish it, now they’re with me. I’ve got my wife, I’ve got my son, we have a house. Roofing is tough work, but, what else could I ask for? I make good money and I don’t complain even though now in the summer it’s a lot of sun. It's rough working outside, but fine. I make good money, and this is what’s important and I’m really happy. Now I provide for my family, I don’t have to worry, above all else because of my house too. Before I worried a lot about my house because I was worried with everything that was going on, all the deportations and stuff like that. But now things have changed [with the arrival of a new administration], and I’m happy about that. Daniel: That makes me happy too. Elvín: Yeah. Francisco: After so much suffering, now you’re having a lot of success. Elvín: Yeah, even though I’ve had to make sacrifices. To have this I had to sacrifice continuing my studies, not getting a degree. But if things had stayed the way they were, I wouldn’t have been able to save my siblings, who knows what would have happened in their lives. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to obtain what I have now. It’s possible that in the future I would have been able to obtain these things, but the most important thing was my siblings. It’s possible that I could still finish high school some day. Daniel: Well, you’ve got work. And we should really let you go be with your boy and everything, to enjoy your Friday. But is there anything you want to say about injustice or the treatment of immigrants? You said that you think people should receive free legal representation, and things like that are very difficult. Is there anything like that or anything else you want to say about the situation at the border, or how people are treated there? �20 Elvín: Yeah. I made that comment about legal representation that you mentioned because, in my house, there are people who arrive here in the United States like I did, with just one person, just one family member and that’s it. And sometimes these family members don’t even help you find a lawyer or pay for a lawyer, they just send you to work. But you can’t go to work because you have to go to school, too. Because that’s what the law says when you arrive here, you’ve got to go to school. And if these people go to school, how are they going to work? They don’t even have authorization to work, they can’t work. But then the government says that you have to have a lawyer with you when you show up for court. How are they going to have a good hearing if they don’t have money? Don’t have the authorization to work? That’s why I say that, you should at least get a lawyer until your work authorization arrives. And when you’ve got work authorization, then you can work and pay for your own lawyer. They should also give us more options so that you [social workers] can provide help to the people who really need lawyers, because I’ve also seen people that just show up there and they’re not concerned about their case, they don’t care, so people like you end up wasting your time, but there really are people that need a lawyer badly. On the border, the thing that seems the worst to me is separating children from their parents, because there’s kids there that are really little, they don’t even talk yet. And how are these kids going to know where they’ll end up? When they’re asked “Where are you going to?” What's a kid going to say to that if they don’t have any idea? Sometimes their parents just give them a telephone number, but when they get onto a truck they take all your things from you. You don’t even know where you’re going anymore. I’ve seen a lot of people that lose their kids. They don’t know where they went, where they were sent. It’s an awful thing what they’re doing, separating children from their parents. Daniel: Did you have any fear of being deported? Elvín: Yeah, when Trump came in I was really afraid because there were so many �21 deportations. I saw a lot of deportations happening during that time, I’m not sure if people were deported in Phoenix, but in California I think, I’m not exactly sure where it was happening, maybe Nashville, I’m not sure, places where they were arresting people. I’m not sure if what was coming out in the news was true because sometimes the news tells lies, but I saw that—well they [law enforcement] would say hey, that work truck has a ladder on top, they must be hispanic, and they’d go arrest them. Yeah, I was really afraid in those days, I even asked my lawyer what happened with my case, if we had a response already. Because I was afraid. Daniel: Do you remember the day you got your green card? Elvín: I think it was about a year ago, yeah, about a year, in November—it was almost the same day as my birthday! Francisco: No, really? Daniel: That was just before you bought your house, right? Elvín: After. Daniel: After, ah, ok. Elvín: I bought my house with just a work authorization, that’s why it was so hard to get the house because they didn’t accept the work permit. But since I had been building up my credit for awhile, that helped me out a little too. Francisco: So that was a period with lots of good news! Elvín: Yea, because I got my house and afterward received my permit, I mean my green card, and we had a son, lots of happiness. Daniel: Like they say in Mexico, “qué padre, no?” (Mexican slang for “that’s so cool”). Elvín: (Laughs). Daniel: How did you feel when you won? �22 Elvín: I felt emotional, I even cried. I cried a lot because I thought “Wow, finally.” So much suffering, sacrifice, and the age at which I started, that all this suffering started. After all I lived through, all that happened, now I’m here, I have this [my green card], I said. And any day I can go back to Guatemala. I don’t think I’ll go, though, because I have my family here. Daniel: What’s the name of the language you speak again? Elvín: Achi. Francisco: It’s an indigenous language, right? Elvín: Yeah. Daniel: Do you speak it with your wife or no? Elvín: Yeah, my wife speaks it. Actually we’ve been trying to teach it to our boy. Francisco: That’s beautiful. Elvín: All of my family members here speak this language. Daniel: Would you mind sharing a few words with us, something you could say in your own language? Francisco: Or Elvín, it could be more like a message, in case sometime in the future, well, you can imagine that someone from your same community might find this interview, and maybe you have a message for them, because in the future they might find this recording and listen to your story… Elvín: Just a message for them? Daniel: Yeah, but in your language. Elvín: (Delivers a message in a mix of Spanish and Achi). Daniel: Thank you Elvín. �23 Francisco: Thank you so much. It’s so nice to have a message like this from you, we’ve never spoken with anyone who speaks your language. I think it’s another indication of how many people from different cultures and countries and backgrounds have gone through so much to come here. And it’s been about an hour, and we want to respect your time, and to express our deep gratitude to you for everything you’ve shared with us, and if you have any questions at any point you can contact Daniel. When the interview and everything is ready to put on the site we’ll let you know. Elvín: Yeah, that sounds good, thanks so much. I also spoke with Roxanna, I think she made a little story to share on Facebook, and I told her I’d always like to help, to show what happens to people who come here, the suffering, the way people lose patience when they’re waiting so long for legal status. I think I had to wait five years for them to give me my legal permit, while other people get theirs in a year at the most. There’s some who don’t show up for their hearings, they start working illegally, and that’s bad. Sometimes I tell my siblings “Don’t do it that way, don’t lose hope, go to your court hearings! Every sacrifice yields something.” That’s what I tell them. Daniel: Thank you for this. Do you have any plans for the weekend? Elvín: Yeah, actually we were going to go to a lake, but my cousin’s son is going to turn two years old and they invited us to the celebration, so we’re going to do that instead. Francisco: Oh, happy birthday! Elvín: [laughs] Yeah, actually our kids are only about one year apart. Daniel: That’s great. Well, my friend, we wish you good luck with everything, ok? Elvín: Thanks so much. Francisco: The best of luck to you Elvin, we really appreciate it. Elvín: Thanks to you all for taking the time to listen to my story. �24 Daniel: Wonderful, thanks Elvin. Francisco: Take care of yourselves, adios. Elvín: You as well. � https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/6df7453b0f2e2f713c1934d342d91ec5.pdf b1cd804f9466720bf289dfa2ceb559d9 PDF Text Text 1 Daniel: Okay, ya estamos. Elvín estoy aquí con mis amigos Francisco, David y Anita. Francisco: ¿Cómo estás Elvín? Elvín: Hola. Daniel: Elvín, gracias. Francisco va a hablar más que mí, pero gracias. Francisco: Elvín imagino que Daniel ya describió un poco sobre el proyecto, pero el propósito de este proyecto es colegir las voces y las experiencias de gente que han sido detenidos, que han pasado por la frontera para llegar acá. Estamos buscando hacer un archivo de esas voces, de esas historias, para guardar para la gente que tiene interés en este tema. Para empezar nada más quiero confirmar que estás de acuerdo hablar con nosotros, participar en el proyecto y que estamos grabando la conversación. Elvín: Sí, mientras que sea uso de este…como le dije yo a él, ultimamente he recibido muchas estafas. Ya he caído muchas veces y la última vez fue algo muy feo, me sentí feo porque se aprovecharon de mi estatus migratorio. Casi me iban a estafar por esta forma. Francisco: ¿Qué es estafa? Elvín: Estafa por teléfono. Primero me estafaron por teléfono cuando estaba tratando de comprar un carro, como no tenía experiencia, creo que me robaron $2.000. Francisco: Estafa, fraud. Elvín: También casi me estafaron por mi estatus migratorio. Casi me hicieron eso, reaccioné y tenía más o menos un poco de conocimiento y reaccioné. Escuché que sí era el estafador. Francisco: Qué pena. Te puedo confirmar que no vamos a usar tu nombre, todo es anónimo. Ojalá que no sigue con eso. Elvín: Sí, por eso le decía esto. �2 Daniel: Vamos a guardar su información y no necesitamos dinero ni nada, yo siento por las cosas que ocurren. En los Estados Unidos hay muchos que tratan, que quieren hacer esto y es lamentable gente así. Francisco: Podemos empezar, tal vez nos puedes contar un poco sobre su vida antes de venir acá a Estados Unidos, de dónde vienes y cómo fue tu vida antes de que empezaste pensar en venir acá. Elvín: Yo nací en Guatemala, en un poblado de Verapaz. Hay muchas razones por la cual me vine acá. Vivir allá, cuando estaba allá era muy duro porque yo empecé a trabajar a los seis años más o menos. Me acuerdo todavía que estaba bien chiquitito, tuve que empezar a trabajar en el campo con mi abuelo porque creo que-- Dios santo, ya no me acuerdo cuántos años tenía cuando mi papá se vino acá a los Estados Unidos. Cuando se vino acá a los Estados Unidos solo habló con nosotros durante creo que dos meses. Después de esos dos meses ya nunca nos habló para atrás y desde entonces de allí en adelante ya nunca supimos nada de él. Literalmente nos abandonó porque el único que nos sostenía era mi abuelo, pero mi abuelo era muy estricto. Era una de las personas que-- No es como ahora, ahora si un niño le pegan a veces, ahí sí de volada se va a ir con la policía o te haces a otro lugar, pero allá mi abuelo era muy estricto. Yo a los seis años tuve que empezar a trabajar porque decía que el que no trabajaba no comía. Yo tuve que trabajar para que pudiéramos comer, para que mis hermanos pudieran comer, y mi mamá igual, porque ella era una mujer, no podía trabajar. En ese tiempo anduve trabajando ahí, sufrí mucho maltrato por mi abuelo porque no sabía hacer el trabajo. Era muy pequeño, no se me quedaba en la cabeza. Él era de los que aprendías por las buenas o por las malas. Él te pegaba también de alguna forma. Te agarraba a palos, lo que sea, me daba duro. Durante ese tiempo nunca supimos nada de mi papá. Hay días que a veces ni comíamos. Por todo eso, como a los 10 u 11 años creo que tenía yo, cuando me tuve que ir a trabajar hasta la capital de Guatemala para ir a cortar café. En eso creo que pagaban, �3 no me acuerdo, creo que eran como $3 o $4 el día. Era lo que pagaban allá en Guatemala. Tuve que trabajar en eso, lejos de mi familia. Me iba por tres meses lejos de ellos y después regresar, entregarle el dinero a mi abuelo y regresaba otra vez a trabajar. Durante ese tiempo mi papá regresó creo que cuando yo tenía 12 años. Se regresó porque lo deportaron, regresó de la casa y cuando él regresó fue un infierno porque él tomaba y no era de las personas que tomaba y se emborrachaba, se dormía. No, él pegaba a mi mamá, a mis hermanos, a mí. Nos pegaba. Más me dolía ver a mi mamá. Cuando le pegaba yo me metía y era que yo recibía más golpes. Dos años estuvimos así. Después de esos dos años había una banda en mi pueblo. No eran ladrones. Era el que mandaba en ese barrio y ellos querían que yo viniera porque estaban reclutando gente. Como ya tenía edad y estaba grande, ellos querían que viniera. Yo no quería. No quería esa vida. Yo no quiero eso, yo crecí trabajando, ganaba mi dinero con mi sudor y para hacer eso yo no quería. Yo les dije que no quería y lo que ellos empezaron a hacer era amenazarme. Me decían que si quería entrar o no, si no quería entrar que me iban a matar. Porque dijeron que era con ellos o si no me mataban. Después de eso fue cuando decidí venirme acá para tener mejor vida. Hay unas cosas de las que me contaban de allá, que acá era muy bonito y todo eso. Yo pensaba que era cierto. Allá ni siquiera teníamos una cama cuando éramos pequeños. Es más, nuestra casa no tiene pared. Ni cama ni baño teníamos nosotros. Fue cuando decidí venir acá y por el miedo que tengo de que me mataran. Yo no quiero entrar a ese grupo, pero ellos me insistían. Creo que llevaban un mes de insistirme cuando yo decidí venirme acá. Me dijeron que si yo iba a venir acá, que ahí quedaba mi familia, quedaba mi hermano, mi hermana. Me dijeron que si de todas maneras yo me venía de alguna forma me iban a hacer daño y yo me vine acá. Sufrí un poco cuando llegué acá porque llegué con mi tío y él también era de las personas de bajo recursos acá en Estados Unidos, él apenas tenía dinero en ese tiempo. Estudié cuando llegué acá algo que sí me gustó. Quise �4 terminar la escuela acá, pero no pude. Francisco: Perdón, pero para llegar acá, ¿cómo fue tu viaje? ¿Cómo llegaste? ¿Cruzaste por México? ¿Cómo fue la experiencia en la frontera y todo eso? Elvín: Tuve que pagarle a alguien que me trajo desde Guatemala hasta la frontera de Estados Unidos. Fue un viaje muy feo porque yo nunca he viajado en carro, era de las personas que andaba a pata toda la vida. Era muy pobre allá en Guatemala. Lástima que no tengo una foto de mi casa donde vivía antes porque mis padres la vendieron, ya no es de ellos. Si tuviera se los mostraría, era una casita de nomás el techo. Yo no estaba acostumbrado a viajar en carro y cuando empezamos a viajar en carro, yo empecé a vomitar. Vomitaba y vomitaba. En todo el camino que vine me pasó eso. Cuando cruzamos Guatemala hasta llegar a la frontera de México sí fue en carro. Ya después de que estábamos dentro de México tuvimos que caminar hasta llegar cerca de la frontera de México. Tuvimos que cruzar el monte, fue una experiencia bien fea porque nos intentaron agarrar. Quién sabe quienes eran, pero las personas que nos traían nos decían que corriéramos, que nos escondiéramos, pero yo no sabía de quién. Hasta hoy en día me doy cuenta de lo que pasa en México. Las personas no huyen solo de los policías, sino que también de los ladrones. Porque hay ladrones también en el monte que tratan de agarrar a los inmigrantes para estafarlos, para pedir dinero por su rescate. Yo no sé si estábamos corriendo de ellos. Creo que antes de llegar a México, un día o cuatro horas más o menos de viaje en camión, yo por vomitar demasiado, desde que me subí en el camión me desmayé o me dormí porque yo no sentí cómo llegamos a la frontera de El Paso. Solo sé que me dijeron que vomitaba mucho y caí entre toda esa gente que venía en el camión. Francisco: ¿Llegaste a la frontera de Estados Unidos en bus después de todo ese tiempo? Elvín: No fue en bus. �5 Francisco: ¿Cuando estuviste en el monte no topaste con la migra? Podemos decir que llegaste al otro lado sin estar agarrado por la migra. Elvín: En México nunca nos pudieron agarrar. Eran policías o ladrones. Yo no sabía de qué estábamos corriendo, solo nos decía que corriéramos. Hoy en día me doy cuenta de que hay mucha gente que se muere en México por culpa de los ladrones que los secuestran y les piden dinero por su rescate. Yo pienso que de eso estábamos corriendo en ese tiempo. Me dice que si fue en camión. No fue camión. No sé si ha visto esas trailas grandes como de Coca-Cola. En esos tráileres veníamos 150 gente ahí dentro. Francisco: ¿Cuánta gente? Elvín: 150. Ellos metían mucha gente para que la se quedara así parada, para que no se vayan de un lado ni para el otro lado, para que estuvieran bien apretados, para que no se mueva la gente. Así llegué la frontera, en ese traila. Cuando nos cruzamos el río, ¿cómo se llama el río que nos cruzaron? Francisco: ¿El río Grande o el río Bravo? Elvín: El río Bravo se llama. Nos cruzaron ese río y pisé tierra de los Estados Unidos. Solo entrando en la frontera nos perdimos en el monte durante 12 horas, creo. 12 horas antes no habíamos comido nada ni agua tampoco. Una noche entera nos dormimos en el monte porque nos perdimos, pero ya aquí dentro de Estados Unidos, en la frontera. Yo vine entrando en Estados Unidos, yo ya podía entregarme a la migración para que ellos me agarraran, pero nosotros nos perdimos y nunca hallamos migración ni nada. Seguimos caminando y cuando nos despertamos seguimos caminando igual y cuando nos dimos cuenta estábamos caminando en círculo. Estábamos donde habíamos empezado. Al final lo que hicimos fue quedarnos sentados hasta que llegó la migración. Francisco: ¿Cómo fue la actitud de los agentes de la migra? Me imagino que te llevaron a un centro de detención. Elvín: Sí. De hecho, desde que me encontré con la migra todo fue tranquilo. Fue un alivio �6 para mí. Yo tenía miedo porque nunca había visto algo así. Ellos nunca nos maltrataron ni nada, de los que sí los maltrataron fueron los que nos cruzaron de Guatemala hasta México, esos sí nos maltrataban mucho ellos. El viaje duramos 20 días en llegar hasta la frontera de Estados Unidos. Había días que no nos daban de comer. Ya llegando acá a Estados Unidos migración nos trató bien, ya me llevaron a un albergue. Ahí duré creo que un mes y 15 días. Francisco: ¿En Phoenix? Elvín: No, en Texas, no sé cómo se llamaba el lugar. El Paso creo que se llamaba el lugar. Ya después de allí me enviaron con mi tío. Daniel: ¿Cómo te fue allí en este albergue? Elvín: ¿Cómo? Daniel: Se me olvidó la palabra, pero ¿cómo te fue allí en Texas? Elvín: Yo cuando llegué allí ya yo no quería salir de allí porque era una vida…todo lo que era allí comparado con lo que yo viví en Guatemala… porque llegué allí y ahí te despertaban en la mañana, te llevaban a comer, luego te llevaban a la escuela, salías en la tarde. Te sacaban a jugar, después te metías y te bañabas, podías ir a la iglesia si querías. Yo quería durar mucho tiempo allí, pero solo duré un mes y 15 días nomás, pero sí, está muy bonito entrar ahí. Francisco: Es muy interesante, Elvín, porque hemos hablado con mucha gente que han estado en centros de detención para adultos, pero que eso fue como un albergue para jóvenes, para menores de edad. Nos interesa mucho cómo fueron las condiciones allá. ¿Se me hace que pudiste salir del albergue para ir a tomar clases o para ir a la iglesia, o todo eso fue dentro del albergue? Elvín: Dentro del albergue. Ellos tenían personas cuidando los niños, los hacían por grupo y con ellos me llevaban a la escuela, me llevaban a la iglesia. Yo no podía hacer lo que yo quería, eso sí, jamás te dejaban hacer lo que tú querías sino lo que ellos �7 querían, pero para mí estaba bien. Ir a la escuela y comer, para mí era vida! Daniel: ¿Habían muchos de Guatemala allí? Elvín: Demasiados. Había muchos de Guatemala. De mi pueblo de donde yo vengo solo había uno nomás, pero había mucho de Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, habían muchos niños ahí. Francisco: ¿Hace cuánto tiempo fue? ¿En qué año fue? Elvín: Fue eso como en 2015, en junio o julio creo yo entré en el albergue porque llegué aquí con mi tío en agosto. Francisco: ¿Fue todo antes de Trump y de todo eso? Elvín: Sí, de todo eso. Fue antes de todo eso. Ahorita ni siquiera sé qué estará pasando allá, pero comparado con lo de antes ya no es lo mismo ahora. Francisco: ¿Entonces las condiciones fueron más o menos bien? ¿No tuviste mucho frío, ni nada de esas cosas que mucha gente habla de como tener frío, tener mala comida o abuso con los guardias, todo eso? Elvín: En donde sí tuve frío fue en la-- No sé cómo le llaman ese lugar, fue donde me llevaron primero. Esos fueron los agentes, me llevaron a ese lugar. Francisco: La hielera. Elvín: Esa. Esa sí tuve frío. Yo no sé por qué hacía frío ahí, de verdad. "¿Por qué no simplemente apagan el aire?", digo yo. Nosotros los de Guatemala venimos de un clima que no es tan caliente como acá, me imagino que los agentes ellos están-- El clima de acá es diferente, en Texas no sé a cuánto llega, pero aquí en Phoenix a veces llega a 110, hace un chingo de calor y adentro tiene que estar frío. Me imagino que los agentes para ellos es normal, pero para nosotros no es normal porque venimos de un clima no tan caliente y ponen el aire y ya hace frío, la verdad sí hace frío. Allí no me acuerdo, creo que nomás duré un día creo ahí o una noche duré ahí nomás. �8 Después de eso me llevaron cerca de la Federal, le dicen a esa cosa, no sé cómo le dicen. Creo que así le dicen. Francisco: Sí, la perrera o la hielera, es como el centro de la Patrulla Fronteriza, donde todos llegan antes de ir a los centros de detención de largo plazo. Elvín: Me llevaron a la hielera, después a la perrera. De ahí de la perrera creo que duré dos días ahí. Dos días o más, no me acuerdo, pero allí no hace tanto frío, pero da lástima mirar a otros niños porque hay muchos niños que están bien chiquititos, no pueden hablar y aun así los tienen encerrados ahí. Es algo doloroso mirarlo, pero ya de ahí me llevaron a la casa hogar. Francisco: Perdón, Daniel. Sigue. Daniel: Sí, lo siento. A veces nuestros clientes describen que la comida era horrible, no hay agua y cosas así. ¿Eso no te experimentaste o qué? Elvín: Sí, lo que era con la migración sí. Porque uno tiene hambre y ellos nada más daban un pinche sándwich así, el pan ya venía como-- La lechuga que tiene adentro ya todo podrido. Eso fue nomás allí. Yo pienso que los otros duraron mucho tiempo allí, por eso sufrieron mucho, como yo no duré mucho tiempo en eso con la migración, por eso. Sí, la comida que da la migración sí está fea, pero ya la del albergue, ¿para qué les voy a mentir? Porque no es la verdad, en el albergue sí dan buena comida. El albergue es vida ahí. Daniel: Sí. Allí todos son diferentes, a veces los jóvenes no quieren salir porque son muy independientes y quizás nada mas quieren llegar a vivir con su familia. ¿Cómo fueron las conversaciones con los otros jóvenes para ti? ¿Puedes describir esas situaciones? Elvín: La verdad yo era de las personas que no hablaba mucho. Yo era muy tímido o así lo siento yo todavía, pero no tanto como antes. Yo no hablaba con nadie, pero en el albergue solo me llevé bien con una persona que hablaba mi mismo idioma, porque yo tengo mi idioma también, hablaba un idioma casi idéntico al mío. �9 Francisco: ¿Cómo se llama tu idioma? Elvín: Achi. Francisco: ¿Achí? Elvín: Sí, es de Guatemala. Daniel: ¿Cuándo aprendiste español? Elvín: Yo en Guatemala nomás fui a primer grado nomás, fui a la primaria, nomás a eso fui. Aprendí un poquito a leer y un poquito el español, pero como yo no salía y no me gustaba hablar con nadie, nunca sabía el español. Cuando llegué acá en Estados Unidos fue donde aprendí el español, aprendí el español de los mexicanos porque tuve una novia mexicana también, aprendí más el español de ella y también aprendí el español de aquí de Estados Unidos, nos lo dan mezclado. A veces hablo allá con gente de Guatemala y me dicen, "Ni sabemos en qué idioma hablás, ni qué español hablás, porque hablás raro". [ríe] Francisco: Como, "A huevo, güey", ¿cosas así? Elvín: Sí. Aprendí un poquito de todo el español, porque los mexicanos hablan diferente el español, como más pesados cuando hablan. Nosotros en Guatemala hablamos diferente también. Mezclaba acá en Estados Unidos el español, también hablan diferente también. Francisco: Sí. Aprendiste muy bien. Elvín: Hay palabras en que me trabo mucho a veces, porque como tengo mi idioma, a veces cuando hablo mucho se me sale mi idioma de la nada. [ríe] Es algo raro, porque hablo en mi idioma. A veces no pienso y digo la palabra en mi idioma. Francisco: Tenía que ser muy difícil si no sabías tanto español en estas situaciones, ¿no? Elvín: Sí. Eso es lo que me gustó del albergue, que las personas me ayudaron bastante, �10 porque a veces no me entendían y se ponían ahí como a tomarse el tiempo de entenderme bien lo que yo les estaba diciendo. Sí me costó mucho, la verdad. Me costó mucho cuando llegué acá también. Cuando fui a la escuela me costó mucho, porque no hablaba bien el español, los maestros no me entendían. Hay uno que hablaba en inglés. Lo bueno de la escuela a donde fui es que la mayoría hablan en español, pero en la clase no hablan en español. Francisco: ¿En el albergue había gente que te cuidaba un poquito o te ayudaron a traducir? ¿Fue como los otros jóvenes detenidos o fue más como los maestros? Elvín: Les decían maestro a las personas que nos cuidaban. Nos cuidaban las 24 horas. Francisco: Qué interesante eso. Elvín: Sí, estaban con nosotros. Cada persona traía creo que ocho niños. Les dicen maestros, cada maestro trae ocho niños. En cada cuarto duermen cuatro niños. Cada maestro trae dos cuartos y en las noches siempre se queda cuidándonos. Nunca podíamos dormir con la puerta cerrada, siempre teníamos que tener la puerta abierta para que esa persona nos mirara toda la noche. Ahí se quedaba parado al frente de la puerta y ahí nos miraban toda la noche. Un turno era de la noche y otro turno era del día. Ya en la mañana cuando nos despertábamos ya no estaba el otro de la noche y ya había otra persona. Ya esa persona se encarga de nosotros en todo el día. Francisco: ¿Sí sentiste que esta gente fueron más como un maestro que una guardia? ¿O nada más fue el nombre que querían que se usaste? Elvín: Para mí fue más como un maestro más bien, porque la verdad me ayudaron mucho, porque no es como otro lugar o como la migración. Si no te entienden te gritan y te dicen, "¿Qué?". Uno con el miedo que tiene a veces le da miedo repetir las cosas. Ellos no, se tomaban el tiempo de que te preguntaran muchas veces, como yo tenía dificultades de hablar en español, no me salían bien las palabras, ellos me entendían. Francisco: Eso es muy interesante, como te dije, que no hemos oído hablar de eso. �11 ¿Cómo fue un día normal allá? Elvín: ¿En el albergue? Francisco: Sí. ¿Cómo fue un día después de que te despiertas hasta el anochecer? ¿Cómo fue el ritmo de un día normal? Elvín: Eso es algo de lo que más me gustó a mí. Como le digo, en la mañana te levantaban creo que a las 6:00 AM. Te levantabas, te cepillabas los dientes y ya te cambiabas. Te dan un short y una camisa nomás. Ya te ponen en grupo, te ponen en una fila para ir a comer. Ahí ya se va detrás de los otros. Se va uno caminando a la cafetería, le dicen, "Cafetería". Creo que tampoco entran todos juntos, creo que entran como 50 niños primero y ya el resto llega a comer después, porque son muchos niños los que hay ahí. Ya entras. Creo que para comer nos daban huevo, cereal, una manzana y dos cartoncitos de leche. Era eso, comíamos. Ya después regresábamos adentro. Después nos dejaban como media hora ahí adentro, nos bañábamos y regresábamos a la escuela, íbamos a la escuela. Ya de ahí salíamos a la escuela hasta las 3:00 PM. La escuela está ahí mismo adentro. Es un lugar supergrande. Hay de todo ahí, canchas para jugar. Había de todo ahí, para jugar videojuegos también hasta había. Para llegar a jugar videojuegos te tenías que comportar bien. Creo que hasta los 15 días, si no tenías ningún reporte te llevaban a jugar videojuegos o hasta mirar una película. Al ir a la escuela durábamos creo que-- No sé cuántas horas, pero salíamos como más o menos a las 3:00 PM. Creo que recibíamos matemática, arte, inglés y no me acuerdo cuáles eran las otras dos. Fueron cinco clases las que nos daban. Ya después de eso regresábamos otra vez a los cuartos, ya nos cambiábamos y ya nos sacaban a jugar otra vez afuera. Afuera uno podía jugar de lo que quería, pero tenía que ir con todo el grupo. Si quieres jugar pelota, los otros grupos también tienen que ir, porque no puede ir solo uno a jugar en un solo lado. �12 Ya después de eso, creo que jugábamos como una hora más o menos afuera, ya nos meten adentro, nos bañamos, nos cambiamos y ya después nos llevan a comer otra vez en la cafetería. Ya comemos y después nos regresamos al cuarto a dormir. Así es un día ahí. Daniel: Muy interesante. Tenías un tío en Arizona. ¿Lo encontraron a él y podías vivir con él? Elvín: Sí, mientras yo estaba ahí, ellos estaban investigando a mi tío para ver si él reunía los requisitos para poder vivir con él. Creo que mi tío envió todos los papeles, porque allá adentro te tardas si la persona que te recibe no reúne los requisitos o no envía todos los papeles que le piden, ahí se tarda más tiempo, pero como él envió todos los papeles rápido, nomás duré un mes y 15 días ahí. Francisco: ¿Cómo sentiste, Elvín, en ese momento cuando por fin pudiste salir del albergue? Elvín: Siéndole sincero yo no quería salir de ahí. [ríe] De verdad, yo no quería salir de ahí, porque no me dé más tiempo aquí, pero a la vez quería conocer a mi tío. Tenía más ganas de quedarme ahí con mis amigos. Daniel: Yo imagino que le daría miedo conocer a un tío que no había conocido y vivir con él. Elvín: Miedo no me daba. Sí tenía una emoción adentro, llevaba 14 años sin verlo, creo, no me acuerdo. Ya no lo conocía, no sabía cómo era. Cuando lo miré me emocioné mucho, para ese tiempo nunca lo miraba. Ahora él acá es como mi papá para mí, él me quiere mucho, yo lo quiero mucho y es como un padre para mí. Daniel: Ah, qué bueno. Elvín: De hecho, él sí es mi padre acá, porque él ganó el caso. Le pidieron la carta a mi papá allá dando-- Firmaron la carta para que mis tíos, para que ellos no sean mis padres. Francisco: ¿Es cómo la tutela? ¿Él tiene los derechos legales como un padre? �13 Elvín: Sí, sí. Daniel: ¿Él encontró al Proyecto Florence? Elvín: ¿Mande? Daniel: ¿Su tío encontró el Proyecto Florence? Elvín: Ya de eso yo no sé si-- Fui a mi primer corte. La verdad mi tío no sabe leer tampoco, él nunca fue a la escuela en su infancia. La infancia de él me imagino que fue más dolorosa que la mía, porque él nunca fue a la escuela. Mi tío tampoco sabía hablar español cuando entró acá en Estados Unidos. Yo fui a mi corte. No teníamos nada de experiencia del caso, yo no entendía bien el español y no entendí cuando me dijeron que tenía corte y que tenía que buscar un abogado. Yo no entendí eso. No me acuerdo quién fue. Creo que fue una amiga de mi tío que le dijo que yo tenía que ir a corte. Ya me pidieron un papel. Me dijeron, "Entrégame tus papeles que te dieron", y ya le enseñé. Porque ahí venía la fecha de la cita de la corte. Me dijo, "A tal dirección vas a ir". Mi tío me llevó a mi primera corte. Cuando llegamos a la corte la muchacha me preguntó que si tenía abogado, yo le dije, "No, no tengo abogados". Mi tío allá es el que habló, porque yo era muy tímido. Nosotros no sabíamos nada de eso. Cuando salimos afuera fue cuando encontramos a una persona del-- No, no era así. El Proyecto Florence, de hecho, se comunicó con mi tío. Sí, fue el Proyecto Florence comunicó con mi tío. Ni siquiera sé cómo fue que-- Creo que el Proyecto Florence me encontró allá en la casa-hogar creo. Daniel: Tal vez. Elvín: No recuerdo bien. Daniel: Tal vez sabían que llegaste a Arizona y te buscaron. También me gustaría oír un poco más sobre cómo fue aprender los cálculos, a ver Phoenix, atender una escuela en Phoenix. ¿Y ahí conociste a tu esposa? �14 Elvín: Sí. Cuando me dijo mi tío, "Tienes que ir a la escuela, porque tienes que estudiar", yo le dije, "Está bien" le dije. Me fue a meter en una escuela que se llama North High School. Esa escuela es la que tiene creo que el 80% de sus estudiantes son puros hispanos y sus maestros igual. Sí, está bonita la escuela, porque la mayoría de los estudiantes hablan puro español. Uno se siente como si fuera en casa, algo normal sin que pase nada. Fue algo que yo me sorprendo a veces, porque en mi primer año de estudiar me subieron a Basic en la escuela. Todos mis compañeros, porque entramos con muchas personas que no hablaban inglés, la mayoría de ellos se quedaron. Creo que cuando llevas seis meses en la escuela te hacen un test de cuánto ya sabes de inglés para ver si te pueden subir de nivel. Creo que está el Intermediate, el Basic, y no sé cuál era el otro. Me subieron a Basic. Desde Basic yo ahí sacaba puras calificaciones buenas, porque me gustaba tanto la escuela. Lo único que yo nunca le entendí fue la-- ¿Cómo es que se llaman esas clases? La geometría, creo, le dicen. No me acuerdo cómo se llamaba. Yo no le entendía esa clase. Al final del año llegué a sacar una B, fue lo más alto que llegué a sacar, pero era algo costoso que yo nunca lo entendí. Lo que sí entendí bien fue álgebra, pero después de eso subieron a otro nivel y ahí no lo entendí. La historia, tenía una clase de historia. Esa clase me encantaba mucho, porque oía toda la historia de Estados Unidos, las enfermedades que pasó, los incidentes y todo eso. Esa era mi clase favorita de todo el día. Daniel: ¿Sí? Elvín: -porque me gusta escuchar la historia de aquí, quiero saber cómo es este país, de dónde empezó, qué pasó en la guerra, o la guerra más grande que sucedió aquí cómo empezó y todo eso. Como no entendía bien el inglés, hay palabras que no la entendía, pero la mayoría de las palabras sí las entendía y me gustaba mucho. Francisco: Elvín, para confirmar algunas fechas y años. Saliste del albergue en 2015, ¿pero cuánto tiempo en total fue allá? �15 Elvín: ¿En el albergue? Francisco: Sí. Elvín: Yo entré en el albergue en julio, 2015, si no estoy mal, y salí en agosto. Llegué acá en agosto con mi tío. No sé si era agosto tres o agosto dos cuando llegué aquí con mi tío, pero me acuerdo bien que hacía mucho calor en ese tiempo cuando yo llegué. Francisco: Fueron más o menos dos meses y llegaste en agosto, a Phoenix. ¿Empezaste en la escuela como en qué año? ¿Fuiste en el 8th grade or-? Elvín: En el nueve. Francisco: Freshman, sí. Estuviste en el High School. Elvín: Sí. No sé en qué tiempo regresan los niños a la escuela, porque salen en mayo y regresan en agosto. Cuando yo llegué, literal no duré nada en la casa, porque al tercer día creo que fui a la escuela. Francisco: ¿Sí? Elvín: Nomás llegué y fui a la escuela. Francisco: ¿Ahora ya estás graduado y salido de la prepa y todo eso? Elvín: No, no pude terminar la high school, me quedé en el grado 11. Francisco: Ah, ok. ¿Sigues haciendo los requisitos o ya dejaste de intentar eso? Elvín: Ay. Mi plan cuando empecé a estudiar aquí era terminar mi carrera, era tener una carrera. Mi carrera ahorita era llegar a ser técnico, digo arquitecto, pero cuando conocí a mi novia ahí en la escuela y nos juntamos, estábamos rentando el apartamento. No me gustaba estar rentando apartamentos, porque siempre te daban un contrato de un año, seis meses, y cuando ellos querían te sacaban, porque no eran apartamentos de esos apartamentos de antes que tenían contratos, sino que eran dueños. Cuando son dueños nunca había un contrato en el medio, ellos decían, “confíate”, y ya cuando ellos �16 querían te sacaban. Yo no quería eso, porque no quería estarme moviendo a cada rato de aquí para allá. Todavía duré un año estudiando. Yo y mi novia duramos un año todavía, yo trabajaba de noche y estudiaba de día, dormía tres horas nomás. Un año nomás duré, pero me cansé porque el sueño me mataba. Ya no me daba tiempo de hacer mis tareas también porque nomás regresaba de la escuela, pasaba a comer, a veces ni comía y me iba a trabajar. Regresaba hasta las 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM, me dormía un ratito y después me levantaba, me iba a la escuela y no-- Nomás un año duré y no aguantaba el sueño. Después de eso vino mi hermano y no pude recibirlo. Yo lo iba a recibir así como mi tío me recibió a mí, pero yo ya no pude porque mi hermano ya cumplió los 18 años y lastimosamente lo enviaron a la cárcel, en la cárcel y no un casa hogar. Ya salió, pude sacarlo, reuní todos los requisitos que me pidieron, salió, lo dejaron aquí, ya estaba él conmigo, ya éramos tres en un apartamento. Después de eso decidió venir mi hermana, decidió venirse porque con mi papá ya tenía otros problemas. Él no quería que mi hermana tuviera novio. Eso dicen, porque yo ya no pude confirmar porque no miré. Dicen que un día mi hermana iba a salir con su novio, pero cuando él miró eso, dicen que casi la iba a matar a mi hermana, estaba ahogándola. Cuando yo escuché eso, yo me enfurecí y le dije a mi hermana que se viniera acá conmigo, porque yo ya no quería que siguiera allá. Sí, pudo venirse acá conmigo, llegó, eso sí la recibí como su papá, también les pedí una carta a mis padre, igual, sí me la mandaron. Ahora yo tengo el, ¿cómo se dice el--? ¿Cómo le dicen el--? Soy tutor de mi hermana. Cuando se vino mi hermana también se vino la hermana de mi esposa, esa fue mi esposa la recibió. Ya éramos, tres, ya éramos cinco en la casa. Ese tiempo yo dejé de estudiar porque ya éramos muchos y los gastos subió, yo necesitaba buscar un trabajo que me pagaran bien, porque en donde estaba trabajando era de limpieza y nada más me pagaban 12 dólares la hora creo, nada más sacaba $800 a la quincena y mi esposa igual, estaba trabajando igual, pero no era suficiente para los gastos. Lo que hice fue �17 mejor, decidí salirme de la escuela y empezar a trabajar. Empezamos a trabajar en el roofing, es en donde estoy ahorita. Empezamos a trabajar en el roofing, mi hermano igual empezó a trabajar ahí conmigo en el roofing. Ya después de eso, creo que duramos un año más rentando y ya decidimos comprarnos una casa. Daniel: Felicidades amigo! Elvín: [ríe] Gracias. Duré un año acabar en lograr conseguir una casa, porque los requisitos que quieren para una casa son muchos. Daniel: Sí, claro. Elvín: Sí, en fin, logramos conseguir la casa, hace ya un año creo llevamos viviendo en nuestra casa. Daniel: Felicidades a todos: tu hermana, su novio, y tu hermano y—¿su esposa? Elvín: Yeah, his wife. Daniel: ¿Son seis también con el niño? Elvín: Seis, sí somos seis. Daniel: Felicidades. Francisco: Elvín, ¿cómo es ahora? Estás en la casa con ellos, ¿cómo sientes estar acá, cómo son tus impresiones ya despues de tenerlos aquí? Elvín: Era la vida que me imaginaba cuando estaba yo en Guatemala, era esa vida la que yo vivía. Por esa razón, también me vine acá porque quería un futuro mejor, quería tener una familia, quería cuidar de mis hermanos, quería alejarnos de mi papá para que no nos siguiera maltratando. Lo logré, gracias a Dios pude lograrlo, ahora ellos están conmigo, tengo a mi esposa, tengo a mi hijo, tenemos una casa. Trabajo en el roofing es algo pesado pero, ¿qué más puedo pedir? Gano bien y no me quejo aunque ahorita con tanto sol sí, está muy duro trabajar afuera, pero bueno. Gano bien, eso es lo que importa y estoy super feliz. Ahora tengo a mi familia bien, ya no tengo que preocuparme, �18 sobre todo por mi casa también. Antes me preocupaba mucho mi casa porque me daba miedo con todo lo que pasaba, deportaciones y todo eso, pero como ahora ya cambió, por eso estoy feliz. Daniel: Esto me pone feliz también. Elvín: Yeah. Francisco: Después de tanto sufrimiento y ahora estás teniendo mucho éxito. Elvín: Sí, aunque tuve que sacrificarme. Para tener esto tuve que sacrificar el no seguir estudiando, el no sacar ninguna carrera. Si iba a quedar como estaba, no iba a poder salvar a mis hermanos, quién sabe qué hubiera pasado con sus vidas. Yo sé que no iba a poder conseguir lo que tengo ahorita, puede que en el futuro después lo podía conseguir, pero lo que más importaba eran mis hermanos. Puede que algún día termine la high school tan siquiera. Daniel: Ya tienes tu trabajo. A tí debemos dejarte a tu niño y todo, para disfrutar el viernes, pero ¿hay algo que quieres decir sobre la injusticia o de la tratamiento a los inmigrantes? Dijiste que piensas que la gente debe tener abogados gratis y esas cosas son muy difícil. ¿Eso o algo más quieres decir sobre la situación en la frontera, o el tratamiento? Elvín: Sí, comentarte lo del abogado que dice usted, porque, en mi casa, como yo llegué hay gente que llegó acá a Estados Unidos con una persona, con un familiar nada más y a veces esos familiares ni siquiera te ayudan para buscar un abogado, para pagar tu abogado, lo que te mandan a trabajar. Pero tú no puedes ir a trabajar porque tienes que ir a la escuela también porque eso es lo que dice la ley cuando entras acá, tienes que ir a la escuela. Si ellos van a la escuela ¿cómo van a trabajar? No tienen un permiso también, no pueden trabajar. Luego dice el gobierno que tiene que traer un abogado cuando llegan a la corte, ¿cómo van a tener una corte si no tienen dinero, no tienen permiso para trabajar? Por eso digo, deberían por lo menos tener un abogado hasta que llegue su permiso de �19 trabajo, ya cuando tenga permiso de trabajo, ya pueden trabajar y conseguir su propio abogado. Que deberían de darnos más opciones también para que ustedes sigan ayudando más a las personas que sí necesitan abogados de verdad, porque también he visto personas que nomás llegan acá y ya no les importa su caso, les vale, ustedes también pierden el tiempo, pero sí hay gente que lo necesita de verdad un abogado. En la frontera, lo que más se me hace feo es separar a los niños de sus padres, porque hay niños que son bien chiquititos, ni siquiera hablan y ¿cómo van a saber los niños dónde van a ir? Cuando les preguntan, "¿Dónde vas a ir?" ¿Qué va a decir el niño si no sabe nada? A veces sus padres les dan el número de teléfono, pero cuando te suben a la camioneta te sacan todo, te tiran todo y uno ya nunca sabe a dónde va, he visto mucha gente que pierde a su hijo, nunca sabe dónde se fue, dónde lo enviaron. Es algo feo que hagan eso de separar a los niños de sus padres. Daniel: ¿Tú tenías miedo de ser deportado? Elvín: Sí cuando entró el Trump me daba mucho miedo porque había muchas deportaciones. Ese tiempo miré muchas deportaciones, aquí en Phoenix no sé si deportaron gente, pero como California creo, no sé donde sucedió o Nashville, no me acuerdo, donde agarraban a las personas. No sé si era cierto lo que salía en las noticias porque a veces también las noticias mienten, pero miré que--pues dicen ah, en la camioneta de los trabajadores, te tiraban de escaleras arriba porque seguro eran hispanos y los iban a agarrar. Sí tuve mucho miedo en esa época, hasta le dije a la abogada que pasaba con mi caso, que si ya había una respuesta. Porque yo tenía miedo. Daniel: ¿Recuerdas el dia en que ganaste green card? Elvín: Creo que fue hace ya como un año, sí, como un año, en noviembre, fue cuando era casi día de mi cumpleaños. Francisco: ¿En serio? Daniel: Eso fue un poco antes de que te compraste tu casa, no? �20 Elvín: Después. Daniel: Después, sí. Elvín: Compré mi casa con un permiso de trabajo, es por eso que me costó mucho ganar la casa también porque no aceptaban mi permiso de trabajo, pero como yo ya estaba construyendo mi crédito desde hace tiempo fue lo que me ayudó un poco ya también. Francisco: Ese fue un período de muchas buenas noticias. Elvín: Sí, porque agarré mi casa y después tuve el permiso, digo el green card y tuviera ya el hijo, que felicidad. Daniel: Como dicen los mexicanos, "Qué padre, no?” Elvín: [ríe] Daniel: ¿Qué sentías cuando ganaste? Elvín: Emoción, hasta lloré, lloré mucho porque dije, “Wow, por fin". Tanto sufrimiento, sacrificio, la edad que empecé que empezó todo el sufrimiento. Después lo que viví, lo que pasé, aquí estoy ahora, tengo esto dije y cualquier día puedo regresar a Guatemala. No creo que vaya a ir porque tengo mi familia aquí. Daniel: ¿Cómo se dice el idioma que hablas? Elvín: Achi. Francisco: ¿Es un idioma indígena, no? Elvín: Sí. Daniel: ¿Lo hablas con tu esposa o no? Elvín: Sí, mi esposa habla. De hecho estamos tratando de que mi niño lo aprenda a saber. �21 Daniel: Qué bonito. Elvín: Toda mi familia que tengo aquí hablamos ese idioma. Daniel: Puedes enseñar nosotros unas palabras, algo que nos puede decir en tu lengua? Francisco: O Elvín, puede ser un mensaje, en caso de que en el futuro, puede imaginar que alguien de la misma comunidad encuentra esa entrevista y si tiene como un mensaje para ellos porque en el futuro van a encontrar esta grabación de esta entrevista y escuchar tu historia. Elvín: Un mensaje para ellos no más? Daniel: Sí, en tu lengua propia. Elvín: (Dicta un mensaje en una mezcla de Español y Achi.) Daniel: Gracias Elvín. Daniel: Muchísimas gracias. Qué bueno tener un mensaje así nunca hemos hablado con alguien que hablaba ese idioma, yo creo que esa es otra indicación de cuánta gente de diferentes culturas, países y experiencias han pasado por todo esto para llegar acá. Ya ha sido como una hora, queremos respetar tu tiempo pero queremos agradecerte muchísimo por todo lo que nos has contado y si tienes preguntas en cualquier momento puedes contactar a Daniel y cuando tenemos listo la entrevista para poner en el sitio y todo eso te podemos avisar. Elvín: (Hace llegar su mensaje en una mezcla de Español y Achi) Daniel: Gracias por eso. ¿Ya tienes planes para el fin de semana? Elvín: Sí, de hecho íbamos a ir a un lago pero con mi prima, su niño va a cumplir dos años y como se va a celebrar entonces nos invitó, entonces vamos a ir ahí. Daniel: Feliz cumpleaños. Elvín: [ríe] Sí, de hecho nuestros hijos tienen casi un año de diferencia. �22 Daniel: Muy bien. Daniel: Amigo, nos hablamos en un futuro, buena suerte y todo. ¿Okay? Elvín: Muchas gracias. Daniel: Mucha buena suerte Elvín, muchísimas gracias. Elvín: Gracias a ustedes por tomarse tiempo de escuchar mi historia. Daniel: Sí, es muy lindo, gracias Elvín. Daniel: Cuídense. Adiós. Elvín: Igual. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Elvín Description An account of the resource In this interview, Elvín discusses his experience living with an abusive family in Guatemala, traveling across Mexico and crossing the US border in 2015, being detained in a children's shelter for minors after being apprehended by immigration authorities, and his experience settling into life in Phoenix after being reunited with his uncle and other family members. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_004 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Guatemala Mexico Arizona--Phoenix Subject The topic of the resource Child abuse Child labor Alcoholism Gangs Indigenous peoples--Languages English language--Study and teaching--Foreign speakers Education, Secondary Language A language of the resource Spanish https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/b0987270bed72859f0bcd8b398a8bf08.mp3 f83667db4c455de0b8f67d732c26c0e5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Rodolfo Subject The topic of the resource Human smuggling Threats of violence Description An account of the resource In this interview, Rodolfo discusses leaving Mexico because of threats against his life, crossing back and forth across the U.S.-Mexico border, turning himself in to Border Patrol, being detained,dealing with separation from family, and making a new life in the United States. Language A language of the resource Spanish Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Mexico--Nogales (Nogales) Arizona--Phoenix Texas--Houston https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/20a4c6daf9a642790466b63f00e4c6eb.pdf 46ac0656ed11a71846dcaa75ce04ab87 PDF Text Text Daniel: Okay. Estamos todos. Rodolfo: Sí. Daniel: Ya sabes, soy Daniel y aquí también tengo a Paco. Paco: Hola. Rodolfo: Hola. Daniel: Y dos hombres, los dos que se llaman David, David Blanco y David Taylor. David Taylor: Hola. ¿Qué tal? David Blanco: Mucho gusto. Rodolfo: Hola, buenas tardes a todos. David Taylor: Buenas tardes. Daniel: Con este proyecto solo hablamos con la gente que se fue de pequeñitos y solo es saber lo que pasó y aprender un poco sobre tu experiencia. Al principio tal vez puedes explicar un poco de quién eres, si quieres. Rodolfo: Sí entendí lo de la experiencia y todo, pero lo último, ¿cómo? Paco: El último dijo nada más para empezar con quién eres, como de dónde vienes, nada más para preguntarte. Rodolfo: Okay, está bien. Vengo de Nogales. Daniel: No vamos a incluir tu nombre, pero es bueno aprender un poco de cuándo llegaste a los Estados Unidos y cuántos años tienes aquí. Rodolfo: Llegué a los Estados Unidos el 15 de febrero de 2017 y ahorita tengo 21 años. Paco: Muy bien, una última cosa antes de empezar. Si estás de acuerdo que estamos grabando la conversación y…para usar la conversación en un archivo de entrevistas con gente como tú que han sido detenidos. ¿Está bien? Rodolfo: Está bien. Paco: Bueno. Y otra pregunta, ¿eres originario de Nogales, ahí creciste en Nogales, Sonora? Rodolfo: Sí, ahí nací y ahí crecí. Paco: Como dijo Daniel, ¿cómo es que llegaste a venir acá a Estados Unidos? File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 1 �Rodolfo: Pues me vine por la línea, pero antes de eso yo pasaba gente por el border de Nogales Arizona. Después me amenazaron de muerte y me vine para acá, me encerraron. Ahora estoy salido porque el doctor Flores tomó mi caso. Daniel: Gracias. ¿Estaba bien peligroso para ti ahí y difícil para quedar? Rodolfo: ¿Para quedarme en México o si estaba difícil pasar acá? David Blanco: No, la pregunta es más si nos puedes comentar un poco esa situación que te llevó a cruzarte, si nos puedes contar un poquito de tu experiencia en ese sentido. Ya también todo el proceso que viviste al cruzar y lo que nos quieras compartir. Rodolfo: Primero me vine fue cuando yo estaba trabajando en Nogales, haciendo eso, pero nunca recibí dinero. Le dije una vez, ya no lo quería volver hacer, pero no me quisieron pagar. Lo volví a hacer para que me pagaran y no me volvieron a pagar porque me agarró la policía fronteriza y después yo ya no quería. Al tiempo, al año los volví a ver a ellos. Me dijeron que por qué ya no quería chambear y les dije que iba a tener que chambear. Ya me amenazaron que me iban a cortar los pies y me vine para acá. Me llevaron a Houston, Tejas. Después me sacó mi tía. Después duré poquito con mi tía y me volví a regresar a México, y después de México me vine otra vez. Estuve encerrado en Phoenix, y ya después de Phoenix me volvió a sacar mi tía, duré como tres meses con ella y me fui para el rancho de un amigo. Y pues dormí afuera como dos años. Y pues después me agarró la migra otra vez. Unas personas que veníamos de trabajar, me deportaron junto con las personas, con unos amigos. Después mi abogada me ayudó a meterme otra vez y ahora estoy aquí. Daniel: Es mucho. [ríe] En esa vez que estabas en Arizona y tu amigo te cruzó en Nogales, ¿puedes explicar un poco lo que pasó y tus pensamientos de experiencia? Rodolfo: Primero pienso de que la vida me está tratando muy mal, que cuando ya estaba en Nogales me sentía con miedo y pues también me sentía decepcionado porque ya tenía un futuro aquí y todo. Ya mi vida se estaba completando poco a poco y pues me sentí muy mal de que me hayan deportado. Hubo muchos pensamientos. Y pues no sé ya que llegué, ya volví a llegar para acá, me sentí bien, pero no me sentí igual. Me sentí diferente. Después de pasar tantas cosas como se te va un poquito el sentido de la vida y cosas así. De ahí, todo bien. Paco: En este proyecto hemos hablado con mucha gente que ha sido detenido en los centros de Florence, en los centros de Eloy, en diferentes épocas, nomo hace muchos años o muy reciente. No sé si puedes describir un poco, más en un sentido emocional, cómo fue llegar después de estar agarrado por la patrulla fronteriza, por la migra. ¿Qué pensaste cuando llegaste a estos centros? No sé qué centro fue, si puedes hablar un poco de eso. Rodolfo: Lo que me acaba de pasar cuando me agarró la migra y me echó para Agua Prieta, ¿a eso dices o cuando yo me vine la primera vez? Paco: ¿Nunca te pusieron en un centro de detención? Fue una deportación rápido. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 2 �Rodolfo: ¿Esta última vez, ya mayor de edad? Daniel: Él era un joven, específicamente era un chico cuando llegó. Rodolfo: Sí, pero es que a mí me agarraron. A lo primero yo me entregué, la segunda vez yo me entregué, la tercera vez me agarró la migra, trabajando, y yo ya había estado en una casa hogar. Esa vez, cuando me agarraron hace como un año atrás, me echaron para Agua Prieta, después mi abogada me metió a los dos días y llegué directamente a Estados Unidos como libre. Paco: Nunca tuviste que pasar tanto tiempo en detención, ¿verdad? Rodolfo: Sí, a lo primero. La primera vez, cuando tenía 16 años, pasé cuatro meses. Después volví a regresarme a México, me devolví otra vez y pasé dos meses en Phoenix. Paco: ¿Hace cuánto tiempo fue esa primera vez que pasaste cuatro meses en detención? ¿Hace cuánto tiempo fue y cómo fue esa experiencia? Rodolfo: Fue el 14 de febrero del 2017. A lo primero fue una experiencia muy fea porque iban pasando muchas cosas, de dejar a mi familia, de que no los podía ver, que ya no iba a ver a mis papás. Otro lado se sentía humillado porque la migra te trataba mal, te hacían malos comentarios, te hacían bañarte con agua fría. Después, cuando llegué al albergue en Houston, ya fue mejor. Ya te daban buena comida, tenías tu cama. Traté de hallarle el lado positivo y ya estaba bien. David Blanco: Entiendo lo difícil que ha sido toda esta situación y lo difícil que debe ser tener a veces pensamientos positivos en momentos tan difíciles. Comentaste que, primero, cuando eras menor de edad, esa primera experiencia fue muy dura, luego otra vez te deportaron y otra vez volviste a ingresar. Rodolfo: No, yo me salí solo. David Blanco: ¿Te saliste? Rodolfo: Yo solo. David Blanco: Te fuiste otra vez a México. ¿Por qué entonces volviste? Rodolfo: Porque me fui nomás porque extrañaba a mis papás y me regresé porque me querían matar allá. David Blanco: ¿Una situación muy difícil en México que te hizo otra vez tomar la decisión de volver? Rodolfo: Sí, es que yo nomás quería ver a mis papás y ya. David Blanco: Cuando vuelves otra vez, ¿otra vez te detuvieron? Rodolfo: Sí, porque yo opté por la línea otra vez. Yo me entregué yo solo. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 3 �David Blanco: Esa experiencia comparada a la anterior detención, ¿qué viste de diferente o fue lo mismo? Rodolfo: Fue peor. Sí, porque fui para allá y el primer día mi mamá me corrió. Ya fui con mi papá y me dijo que era un pendejo, que había arruinado mi vida. No sé, como yo me fui por ellos, para verlos, y ellos que me dijeran eso fue muy feo. Después, cuando ya estaba allá en Phoenix, ya estaba contento porque dejé que estaba alejado de las personas que realmente no les importaba cómo yo pensaba. Me di cuenta de que no tengo a nadie, que estoy solo en el mundo y me la tengo que rifar por mí mismo. David Blanco: Cuando volviste a ingresar a Estados Unidos, ¿otra vez te detuvieron? Eso es lo que te entendí al principio, como que te han detenido dos veces, esa vez que volviste a entrar. Si comparas esa primera vez que te detuvieron a esta segunda, ¿qué ves de diferente en esas detenciones? Rodolfo: Es lo mismo, como malos tratos de la parte de la policía fronteriza. No sé, como vergüenza, pero venía pensando más en mis papás y ya no me importaba lo que me dijeran ellos. En casa Phoenix ya lo tomé por el lado bueno, como de que comida gratis, una cama, así. Ya lo estaba tomando por el lado bueno, ya no me importaba. Daniel: ¿Este lugar en Phoenix fue un albergue para niños inmigrantes? Rodolfo: Sí, correcto. Daniel: ¿Ahí no se puede salir? Rodolfo: ¿Qué? Daniel: ¿No se puede salir? Rodolfo: [inaudible 00:14:15]. Daniel: Hay que vivir allí, no se puede salir, ¿no? Rodolfo: No, no puedes salir para nada. Es como una juvenil, pero no es un arresto. Es nomás así como una casa hogar, pero no te puedes ir. Daniel: ¿No te pasó tan malo ahí? Rodolfo: ¿Mande? Daniel: ¿No fue tan difícil? Sí, ¿cómo lo pasaste? Rodolfo: Le digo que yo venía pensando en mis papás y ya no me importaba lo que estaba pasando allí. Ya nomás era comer y ya todo bien. Lo estaba tomando por el lado positivo, entonces bien. Daniel: ¿Cuando estaba allí es cuando doctor Flores, tú conociste a él? File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 4 �Rodolfo: Sí, correcto. Daniel: ¿Todavía tienes tu caso o [unintelligible 00:15:22]? Rodolfo: Ya gané mi visa T. Daniel: ¿Sí? Rodolfo: Sí. Daniel: Felicidades. Rodolfo: Gracias. Paco: Sí, felicidades. Rodolfo: Su esposa, Laura, fue la que me ayudó. Daniel: Sí, mi esposa es tu abogada. Rodolfo: Gracias a ella. Daniel: Ella está bien preocupada cuando la migra te puso en Nogales, aunque tú estabas [unintelligible 00:16:07] por proteger tu vida. Cuando estabas en Nogales, en este [unintelligible 00:16:15], ¿cómo sobreviviste esta experiencia? Rodolfo: No duré mucho tiempo en Nogales, fue como de que cuando me agarraron me echaron para Agua Prieta. Yo tenía poquito dinero, pero no sabía dónde estaba la estación ni nada, entonces pedí raite para la gente que iba yendo. Luego unos me decían que iban para ese lado, que me podían tirar. Así, me fui yendo en puro raites y hasta que llegué a Nogales, pude cargar mi teléfono y hablarle a mi abogada Laura. Ya fue como de que no tardó mucho ella en arreglar eso, tardó como media hora y me dijo que yo me regresara para atrás. Porque yo le expliqué todo y yo le estaba explicando que todo lo que yo vi, que estaba mal de la patrulla fronteriza. Laura pudo solucionar eso y rápidamente me regresaron para atrás. No duré mucho en Nogales. Daniel: ¿Cómo te fue este momento en que pasaste de nuevo a los Estados Unidos? Rodolfo: No sé, como yo tenía un presentimiento de que iba a regresar, pero sí estaba muy triste, llorando y así, pero no sé, como algo en mí me decía que yo iba a regresar. Daniel: ¿Cómo te va regresando allá? Rodolfo: ¿Dónde? Daniel: ¿Cómo es tu vida allá? ¿Qué estás haciendo desde que ganaste tu caso? File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 5 �Rodolfo: No entendí eso. Daniel: David, can you help me out with this one? David Blanco: Ya que ganaste tu caso, ¿nos puedes comentar un poco de cómo es tu vida ahora? Rodolfo: No ha cambiado mucho hasta ahorita que ya por fin puedo tener un trabajo, pero no sé después de tanto tiempo esperar algo, como que se quita el sabor, no sé, a la vez me siento triste, me siento solo. Ahí va lo cosa para arriba. Acabo de ganar $12,000 por esa vez que me deportaron, también gracias a Laura y a mis otras abogadas. No sé, que el dinero y eso no es toda mi felicidad. Sí estoy contento, pero tengo algo dentro de mí que me hace falta. Después de tantas cosas que he pasado. Paco: No sé si estás diciendo que antes de recibir la visa imagino que viviste, aun después que llegaran aquí en Estados Unidos, viviste con mucha inseguridad, mucha incertidumbre. Rodolfo: Sí. Viví en un rancho afuera, como dos años, me caía la nieve, a veces tenía hambre, a veces quería ir al baño y no podía porque estaba la puerta cerrada. Yo siento que después de que gané esto, siento que no es nada a pesar de lo que sufrí. Paco: Que todavía estás viviendo con esa misma incertidumbre y un sentido de inseguridad aunque tienes tu visa, en cierta manera. Rodolfo: Sí, algo así, pero ya me estoy sintiendo un poquito más feliz, pero todavía tengo eso. Paco: ¿Por qué crees que ese sentido sí--? Eso a mí interesa mucho porque la mayoría de la gente dicen, "Después de que gané mi caso, me siento muy feliz, me siento muy contento, más seguro". Hay gente que dicen que a veces tienen sueños o pesadillas, o esas cosas, pero lo que tú estás diciendo me interesa mucho porque es como un sentido de, "Esto sigue", aun después de que te debes sentir seguro todavía falta algo, no sé. ¿Por qué piensas que ese sentido sigue contigo? Rodolfo: Es que no me siento inseguro por la migra, no me siento inseguro por esas cosas, solamente de que esperé tanto, que no sé-- Hasta muchas personas en los trabajos abusaban porque sabían que no tenía papeles o cosas así. Me quedó como rencor. No sé si me hace falta mi familia, no sé. No me siento así como que-- O cuando me dieron el dinero tampoco fue como, "Qué machín". Es como otras personas que hubieran ganado $12,000 y estuvieran-- Pero yo no, siento que me hace falta algo. David Blanco: No estás completamente pleno, te hace falta algo, pero no sabes todavía qué es ese algo. Rodolfo: Sí, exacto. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 6 �Daniel: Hay quienes vienen porque tienen familia aquí o una oportunidad de trabajar, pero tú no viniste para eso, tú saliste para escapar. Rodolfo: Así es. Como lo dice usted, yo no me vine por el dinero, yo no me vine para una mejor vida, yo pobre era feliz allá. Siento que mi felicidad se fue desde que yo me vine de allá. Las personas se encargaron de hacerme otra persona que yo no era, me cambiaron toda mi seguridad de mi mente. Ya no puedo hacer algo sin pensar qué va a pensar la gente o cosas así. Por ejemplo, estoy aprendiendo inglés, estoy yendo a la escuela, pero cuando me hablan inglés como que quedé frustrado y le digo, "Oye güey, no seas mamón, yo hablo español", o cosas así. Por ejemplo, yo creo en la santa muerte, cuando me dicen algo de mi creencia, por ejemplo, me frustro o siento que me están discriminando, o cosas así. Daniel: Es parte de la cultura diferente, te hace falta México, ¿sí? Rodolfo: Sí, es que me vienen tantas cosas de la vida cuando me vine para acá. Por ejemplo, mi tía sí me ayudó a sacarme del albergue, pero ya que llegué aquí es como, "Rífatela tú, anda como puedas". No pensé que iba a estar tan solo. Daniel: Hay muchos jóvenes que dicen eso. Rodolfo: Sí, como que todos me dejaron a mi suerte. Daniel: ¿Tienes una buena comunidad aquí en Arizona? Rodolfo: ¿Qué es eso? Paco: ¿Amigos, colegas? Rodolfo: Yo tengo miles de amigos aquí, aquí me la llevo de vago, conozco mucha gente en todos lados, me invitan a todos lados, pero no sé qué es lo que me hace falta. Porque a mí no me gusta jugar videojuegos, no me gusta ver la tele, a mí me gusta salir y platicar. Sí tengo muchos amigos, tengo una novia, tengo ahorita mi propio apartamento, tengo un trabajo, tengo mi carro, tengo $12,000. Eso no me llena mi felicidad todavía. Paco: Algo falta todavía. Rodolfo: Sí, es como más de que, como que mi familia me abandonó, que todos me abandonaron cuando yo los necesité, yo creo que es eso. Yo pensé que antes yo tenía alguien que estuviera para mí, ahora me doy cuenta que si se chinga mi carro yo lo tengo que arreglar, si me quedo tirado en una parte yo tengo que caminar. No tengo a alguien que diga, "Okay, yo estoy para ti o esto", ¿sí me entiendes? Daniel: Sí, cómo no. [silencio] File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 7 �Daniel: Me pondría triste también. David Blanco: Una pregunta, has mencionado mucho que te falta algo que no sabes bien qué es, que crees que es tu familia, ¿no has vuelto a hablar con ellos, con tus padres? Rodolfo: ¿Qué? David Blanco: ¿Que si has vuelto a hablar con tus padres? Rodolfo: Sí, pero no, con mi papá tengo como tres años que no hablo, mi mamá a veces me manda mensajes, pero no le contesto. Cuando yo estaba allá en el rancho, que me caía la nieve, que tenía hambre, que ocupaba ir al baño, que ocupaba ropa, ahí no estuvieron ellos. Yo no los quiero ahorita cuando ya yo tengo mis cosas. Porque si ellos me abandonaron cuando yo los necesité, ahora que no los necesito, ¿para qué los quiero? [conversación cruzada] Rodolfo: ¿Mande? David Blanco: Te entendemos perfectamente. Daniel: Dijiste que tu papá dijo que elegiste tu vida, ¿sí? Rodolfo: ¿Cómo? Daniel: ¿Dijo tu papá esa cosa que tú elegiste tu vida? Rodolfo: Sí, cuando yo me vine para acá él me dijo que yo arruiné mi vida, que era un pendejo. Daniel: ¿Por qué dijo eso? Rodolfo: Porque yo me regresé para verlos a ellos, porque yo pensé que ellos iban a buscar la manera de que yo estuviera con ellos, pero no. Él lo que le importaba es que yo me fuera e hiciera mi vida, porque él tiene otra familia. Yo le dije que no le iba a molestar nunca y así fue. David Blanco: ¿Eres hijo único? ¿Tienes hermanos? Rodolfo: Uno. David Blanco: ¿Él es menor o mayor? Rodolfo: Menor. David Blanco: ¿Tienes contacto con tu hermano? Rodolfo: Me habla, pero para pedirme dinero, cosas así, no le contesto. Paco: ¿Cuántos años menor es? File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 8 �Rodolfo: Es un año mayor. David Blanco: ¿Es un año mayor? ¿Tú eres el menor? Rodolfo: Sí. Daniel: ¿Él vive en Nogales? Rodolfo: Sí. Paco: Cuando piensas en el futuro, ¿qué es lo que te gustaría lograr? Rodolfo: Yo quiero ser-Paco: Adelante, perdón. Rodolfo: Quiero ser agente de la DEA, mi propósito es acabar con las M30, así con las pastillas que tienen a todos bien pendejos aquí. Ese es mi propósito, pero no sé, ya lo estoy viendo muy lejos, muy difícil, por eso también me estoy desanimando, porque lo único que me interesa ser en la vida, creo que no lo voy a poder lograr. También eso me está dando más tristeza. Paco: ¿Por qué no? Rodolfo: Porque ya voy a terminar high school en estos meses, pero ya de ahí ya no tengo dinero para seguir haciendo la escuela. Yo no tengo un apoyo, tengo dos opciones, o trabajar o morirme de hambre. Daniel: ¿Qué quieres estudiar? Rodolfo: Quiero ser agente de la DEA. Daniel: ¿Qué es eso? Rodolfo: Agente de la DEA. Daniel: DEA. Rodolfo: Sí. Daniel: ¿Como policía? Rodolfo: Sí, pero así como antinarcóticos. Daniel: ¿Por qué quieres hacer eso? Rodolfo: Porque quiero ayudar a la gente que está bien-- Así como los hombres que están ahí todos drogados, todos pendejos. Le tengo coraje a la gente de allá, que yo me pueda infiltrar allá, yo sé que yo puedo hacer un buen trabajo. No me importa si me matan en el trabajo, yo siento que es lo que me gusta a mí, yo sé los riesgos, es lo que me haría feliz, yo creo. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 9 �Paco: ¿Cuando piensas en el futuro también piensas en poder arreglar las cosas con tu familia? ¿Te gustaría volver, hablar y estar más con ellos? ¿O no piensas tanto en eso? Rodolfo: No pienso en eso. Paco: Una pregunta. Cuando piensas en toda esa historia que nos has contado, piensas en las fronteras y en la migración, en la migra, en la detención. ¿Piensas en esas cosas como algo que te arruinó las cosas? ¿O no piensas tanto en eso? ¿Piensas que más es tu relación con tu familia, otras decisiones? ¿O piensas que ese sistema de migración que tenemos en este país te afectó de una manera, si fue parte de la causa de todo eso? Rodolfo: A la vez sí, porque se portaron muy mal, me hicieron sentirme como un perro. Lo de mi familia ya no me importa, ya no pienso en lo de la migra ni nada de eso, simplemente que estoy en busca de mi felicidad y no la puedo encontrar, es todo. Daniel: No ha pasado mucho tiempo desde que todas estas cosas tan difíciles. Puede que en los meses y años que vienen tú puedas tener más fácil, ser más feliz con todo y conocer a buena gente. Yo sé que es mala la gente que has conocido en tu vida, espero que sea mejor. Rodolfo: Sí. Ya pasaron las cosas malas, ahora vienen las buenas, no se preocupe. [ríe] Todo está bien, pero le agradezco por todo, por escucharme. No sé, me hizo bien hablar con alguien. Alguien que ni conozco, platicarle lo que me ha pasado. [ríe] Daniel: ¿Tenías un coche ahí, pero ellos lo sacaron, sí? Rodolfo: Sí, se lo quedaron, con toda mi ropa. Daniel: ¿Ya puedes comprar nuevo? ¿Ya tienes nuevo? Rodolfo: Desde que llegué compré uno. Daniel: ¿Es mejor? Rodolfo: Sí, es mejor. No muy mejor, pero algo mejor. Daniel: A lo menos que eso fue lo que investigó, ¿no? Rodolfo: ¿Cómo? Daniel: Ya tienes lo que pasó, estoy bien arrepentido que ese proceso pasó. Rodolfo: Está bien. Dios por algo hace las cosas así, ni modo. Yo quería que yo me ganara ese dinero, por eso me pasó esto. Daniel: Sí. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 10 �Rodolfo: ¿Verdad? Daniel: Sí. Rodolfo: Ahí está. [ríe] David Blanco: Muchas gracias por compartir tu historia, pero siempre positivo. Si tu sueño es ser un agente de la DEA, creo que tienes razón, tú puedes tener un perfil único, porque cada persona es única y no todos los agentes van a hablar tan bien español como tú y pueden infiltrarse y eso. No dejes de insistir de ese sueño, el camino también te va mostrando de pronto otras opciones que más adelante de pronto encontrarás, y como dices tú, "Viene lo mejor". Una última pregunta de mi parte al menos sería, esas cosas que tú dices que viviste feas y malas en los centros de atención y como te trataron. ¿Qué crees tú que se pueda hacer para que otras personas no pasen por esa situación? Rodolfo: En el albergue no me trataron mal, pero lo de la migra, yo pienso que eso nunca va a poder cambiar, porque siempre va a haber racismo, eso no va a ser algo que ni diciéndole se va a poder cambiar. La gente que se venga va a tener que pasar por eso y es la verdad, aunque se escuche cruel, tienen que pasar por eso. Porque es parte de venirse a un país donde nos miran mal y eso aunque duela no lo van a poder cambiar. La trata de cómo le hablan a la gente, cómo los hacen sentir, cómo los interrogan. Te hacen sentir como un perro, pero esos señores están haciendo su trabajo, también hay que entenderlos. Pero no cómo te tratan, como un perro. David Blanco: Sí, muy fuerte. Rodolfo: Así es, pero esa es la verdad, aunque duela. David Blanco: Sí. Paco: La idea de este archivo, de esa conversación, nos gustaría que exista por mucho tiempo, que va a existir en una biblioteca y que gente 10 años en el futuro, 20 años, 30 años y más, cuando están investigando, quieren entender qué pasaron la gente antes para venir acá, cómo fue la detención, la situación en la frontera, todo eso. Ojalá que van a estar escuchando tu voz en el futuro. Por mi parte, la última pregunta sería, ¿qué quieres que esa gente conozca, que entienda, sobre lo que tú viviste, esa experiencia, ese momento en tu vida? Rodolfo: Yo les digo de que no se agüiten, no se pongan tristes, es un cambio en su vida aunque sea muy doloroso, no todo el tiempo va a ser así. A lo primero sí se van hartar, van a haber malos tratos, va a haber racismo, les van a hacer sentir muy mal, pero todo eso Dios lo va a cambiar para bueno. Aunque no van a quedar igual porque después de tantos trastornos, ver el lado más negativo de la gente, cómo te pueden tratar con odio, pero pues todo a su tiempo y para que piensen en que la vida los está tratando muy mal, pues un día va a cambiar. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 11 �Hay veces que tarda más en cambiar, hay veces que a unos más pronto, hay unos que más tarde, así sean cinco años y les esté yendo mal en la vida, que se esperen que un día con el favor de Dios les va a cambiar la vida. Daniel: Es un buen mensaje, gracias. Paco: Sí, un mensaje de mucha esperanza. Rodolfo: Qué bueno. Daniel: ¿Qué es tu plan para el fin de semana? Rodolfo: Ahorita me voy para Winkelman, ahí con unas morritas y nomás. Daniel: ¿Qué es eso? Rodolfo: Unas morras, unas mujeres. Paco: Girls. [risas] Paco: He is hanging out with some girls in Winkelman. Daniel: Winkelman, okay. Paco: Yes, little town an hour and a half from here. [conversación cruzada] Daniel: Un buen lugar. Rodolfo: [ríe] Sí. Para que escuchen que no todo es malo, ya después. A mí ya me tocó lo malo, ahora viene lo bueno. Ahorita vamos con unas babies. [risas] Paco: Qué bueno, que disfrutes. Andas con mucho cuidado y que disfrutes el fin de semana y todo lo que sigue. Rodolfo: No, está bien, muchas gracias, bendiciones. Cualquier cosa que hagan ustedes que la pasen muy bien. Daniel: Gracias. ¿Recibiste la forma, sí? Rodolfo: ¿La forma? Paco: El formulario para dar permisión. Rodolfo: Creo que sí, ahorita se lo firmo. Nomás me voy a bañar rápido y ahorita se lo mando para atrás. ¿Okay? File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 12 �Daniel: Okay. Gracias. Que te vaya bien y nos hablamos. Rodolfo: Okay, que Dios lo bendiga. Daniel: Gracias. Paco: Hasta luego. Igualmente David Taylor: Gracias. David Blanco: Adiós. File name: DETAINED 007 Rodolfo .wav 13 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Rodolfo Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_003 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Mexico--Nogales (Nogales) Arizona--Phoenix Subject The topic of the resource Human smuggling Threats of violence Description An account of the resource In this interview, Rodolfo discusses leaving Mexico because of threats against his life, crossing back and forth across the U.S.-Mexico border, turning himself in to Border Patrol, being detained, dealing with separation from family, and making a new life in the United States. Language A language of the resource Spanish https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/f3ffb6b5f0cb033b2fef2b6e3cf090e0.mp3 521259461b9e0124b38098682ceb9f90 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/ffc59e2b217a0aea61440b6f8b6585e4.pdf e7c3408de3dfcdefea4b45a699ff758f PDF Text Text Daniel: Rodrigo, so glad we got to connect with you. I believe you were a client for a few years, for a couple of years at least. I already got a little bit of your back story. I guess today I was hoping we could start off with just talking about what was your first impressions of going into immigration detention and what that was like for you? Rodrigo: Going into something I didn't, I’d never been into, it was scary at the time. You don't know what you're walking into. You don't know that type of life, what's going on in there, stuff like that. It was just nerve-wracking I guess I would say, but then again, it's like you see in the movies and prisons and stuff like that so you don't know if it's going to be the same as like a prison, or if it's worse or less than how that is. You walk in there with a mentality like, "You can't be shown to be a weak dude or whatever." It was funny to me because the moment I walked in there, I was like the biggest guy there because everybody who was there was short and skinny and not that tall. I'm like, "Okay, I guess it's not going to be that bad." Then, I started talking to people and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, but I mean it's still nerve-wracking. It gets to you once you walk in and you don't know what you're walking into. My impressions, were what I need to do, I just sit down and I look at my surroundings of what's going on and how things work and stuff like that. That's how I took it the first time I got there. Daniel: How big are you? You said you were a star football player, right? Rodrigo: Yes, I am 6'3” and I weigh, I'm 389 right now. Daniel: Wow. Were you a lineman or something? Rodrigo: I played offense and defense. At defense, I played noseguard and in offense I played right tackle. Daniel: Wow. You came into immigration custody after getting caught shoplifting from Home Depot. Was this your first time? Did they take you through a police station first or did you, how did you end up in the immigration custody? Rodrigo: Yes, I went to the police station. Then I actually went downtown to 4th Avenue. Then I just stayed 24 hours and then that next day I went to go see the judge. When I went to see the judge, the judge, she was like, they asked the people that they had recovered everything I had stolen, which was just some gloves, and they were just like, "Yes, that was it." It was less than $100. She was like, "Okay, well," she's like “You did your time, your time is served. That's it. You needed to go. You're done here." I'm like, "Okay." Then it was just the process of getting out. I wasn't going to get out because ICE was there waiting for me when they were giving my stuff. By the time, she told me like, "Okay, here's your stuff." He's like, "But this guy needs to talk to you." Then I see and I'm like, "What guy?" He was like, "The ICE guy." I'm like, "Shit. Okay." That's when I went to him and he's like, "Oh, we're detaining you for being illegal." Then that's when they took me to, I believe, it's on Central and McDowell is where they have �their offices right there. Before they send you to either Eloy or La Palma they just have you in some rooms, cold-ass rooms at that. They just have you there for hours until they have enough people to send to fill up the buses. Then from there, they just take you to Eloy or wherever they are going to send you to. Daniel: If someone's listening to this and they have never seen an ICE detention center or long-term detention, how would you describe Eloy from when you arrived there, and what it looks like and feels like there? Rodrigo: It's kind of units, I would say. You have a big building and then inside that building, you have, was it one, two, three, four, five? You have five rooms in one building and each room holds 50. It's 25 cells and each cell is two people. You have upstairs and you have downstairs. Then you have steel tables. It's kind of like a jail type of thing. They have the same thing as the jails. It's the steel chairs. Then, well, you have your beds and, well, I wouldn't even fucking call them beds because their beds were pretty much like I was just laying on pure metal. Not only that, but the bed metal they had was rusted, almost corroded. You have to be watching yourself so you don't cut yourself or some shit. Then the mattresses that they gave you, it wasn’t even a fucking mattress, to be honest. Excuse my language, but it was just like if they were to give you less than an inch thick of mattress. It was just, it wasn't the most comfortable place you could be in. Daniel: Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that immigration detention centers are indistinguishable from prisons, but then you get there and you said that was what you were thinking of, you were like, "Oh, it's like I'm going to a prison." So, you were expecting it to be dangerous and stuff. Rodrigo: Yeah, like you said, people are here that have never been to jail or prison or anything like that. You see movies or you hear people that have been through those situations or that have been to prison or jail, you hear all these stories and those stories that you hear are the same stories that you see on TV from TV shows or movies. So, going into a place like that, you’re thinking it's like a prison, so that's your mentality. You think that's what you're going to walk into, like you need to watch your back and people are going to have shanks and stuff like that. You just don't know what you're walking into. Your mentality is advised to be aware of what's going on and the people around you and stuff like that. It's not like a prison, but I don't know, I would say it's not, but it is, because in simulations you get treated like shit. These people don't care about you. They really don't. You're in there on your own. If you don't know English, you're kind of fucked, because everything that they give you, it's in English. These people don't know how to read or write English, so they don't know what's going on. The officers just go and then they give you the paperwork here or they drop this off for you, or “you need to fill this out for your next court date.” They [the people in the detention center] just look at the paper, like, "Okay, what do I do now?" They don't know anything. �The guards don't explain to you. They tell the guards there, the COs, not to explain to them what it means or whatever. Anybody that has an issue or is trying to figure out what a paper says or what their letter says, they'll go up to a CO and ask them for help. The COs are like, "Well, I can't literally help you. I can't tell you what it says.” It’s just stuff like that. A lot of people are suffering because they don't know what's going on. They don't know nothing about what the paper says or if they have a court the next day, or maybe they need, you know, they don't know nothing about that. It's tough in there. Daniel: Yeah, so we've seen a lot of movies about prison and the dynamics in there. Did you get to know the people you were with and learn a little bit about where they're coming from and, well, how would you describe the social dynamic between the other people in detention, all from multiple countries and stuff? How did that go, or what was that like? Rodrigo: Yeah, it was interesting. For the years that I'd been there, my cellies man, I’ve had different cellies. For a month or two months, they would just come and go. A lot of them I got to know then, and I had a bit different type of people. People from El Salvador and all the way down south to south of Mexico, like Ecuador and stuff like that. And stories man, people were, it's like you have nothing but time there, so all you do is you talk about your life and the reason why they're coming over here. It's crazy to hear these stories that these people go through just to get on this side. People come through the desert, the states and the cities that they cross just to get here. One of the guys would tell me that him crossing the desert, he saw a part of a leg and some coyotes eating a human, like the remains of what was left. For him, it was crazy because he's never seen something like that. They can't do nothing about it. The guy is dead already, and you have some coyote eating a human being. For him, it was just, it was sad. It’s stuff like that that makes them try harder and fight harder for what they're trying to achieve over here. It comes from sad stories to guys just coming over here just for the fun of it. One of my cellies that I had, he said that he just wanted to come just to see if he can cross, just to see if he could make it. It was a bet that him and his friend did to see if he could come across the border and end up in the United States. He wasn't here to look for a job or to better his life. It was just a bet that him and his friend made. Daniel: Wow. Rodrigo: Yeah. He was one of the persons, he had really crazy, he pretty much had different personalities. He would act crazy at times. He would cuss and spit at the COs. He was banging on the doors. Then again, once we got into a deep conversation about his family, he changed. He was like a whole different person. Out of all the people that I've been with, he was the one that I was scared to go to sleep with because I don't know what the hell he was thinking. I would always be at the bottom and my cellies would always be at the top. With him, I was like, if he needs to go up to have a comfortable seat because I don't know, he would wake up in the middle of the night just talking to himself. �It's stuff like that: like I said, you don't know what kind of people go in there. Most of the people come from all types of the world, even Indian people. Hindus, they've been there before. They've crossed, paid thousands of dollars just to get to Mexico, and then from Mexico, they started going up. Cubans. It's just everything, all kinds of people. It was so many stories man, it's just so many stories that I've heard people telling me, sad stories and good stories. It's just crazy. Some guy, he was addicted to cocaine, and he was a taxi driver. He was actually one of my good friends, he was a cellie. We really bonded a lot together. He was addicted to cocaine so he would go to work as a taxi and make all kinds of money and go home and tell his wife that he didn't make any money because he would spend it all on cocaine. He said his life was kind of spiraling down and so he said he didn't want that life anymore so that's why him and his family came to the United States and they crossed through the border. They caught him and they put him in there. He was there with me and his kid. His wife was on another side because in Eloy, they have one side for men and the other side for girls. His wife was on the other side where the females were at. It was a sad story because his son caught him doing drugs. His son, I think he was the same age as my son, so he was six or seven. He said when his son saw him injecting the cocaine or whatever into him, that's when I guess it hit him and he said that he needed time for a change so that's when he came over here. He had family over here on this side. He had to went to court, the judge had given a bond for him and his wife. I think it was $2,500. He was so excited to have that bond that they were going to be out. They called, I believe, I don't know if it was his cousin or her cousin that were going to help him out with the bond. At the end of the day, they just told him that they couldn't because they didn't have the money or something like that. I guess he got into an argument with them and then at the end he didn't even help him out. They didn't end up helping them out to get released. He was bummed about that. He was just like, "It's not that much, it's $2,500 and I know they have the money, and they can't help me and my wife or my kid here?" They've had the bond for them, and they never got bonded out because their family were being pricks, I guess. He ended up getting deported. He ended up giving up. He's like, "You know what? I can't do this." Now he's here. He's in New York. He came back and he's in New York now. He hit me up on Facebook actually. Daniel: You're still in touch with people you met when you were detained? Rodrigo: Yeah, I mean on my Facebook. Once we leave, when people leave, we give each other contact information. Like I said, being there for that long, you become friends with people. You know these guys and they become more than friends. It's like a family to you. Do you know what I mean? Being there for that long you get to know a lot of people there. People come and go and stuff like that. That means people give out their Facebook information. Especially people that, if they win their case, or they get a bond here, they always give their information. “Hit me up on Facebook” and stuff like that. �Daniel: I hadn't realized that they kind of sprung it on you and ICE showed up to your court hearing. Did they give you any information. Was it just “you're going into detention, you're going to be deported?” How did you deal with that uncertainty and that surprise? Rodrigo: Well, what are you talking about? When then they first went to pick me up at the jail? Daniel: Yeah. Rodrigo: It was just like, "Oh, you've been detained for being illegal. For being here, for being in the country illegally." The first time I got held by them that's what they told me. They were like, "You've been detained for being here illegally." At the time I didn't know really anything. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. I was in shock because I was like, "Dude, I thought I was getting out and now these guys are detaining me." He was like, "Yeah, you're being detained." He was like, "We're taking you to the office and we'll speak about it more over there." Once we got to the office, which is literally down the street from the jail, that's when they pulled me into one of the rooms and that's where they were telling me all this–actually there was two guys in there. One was just telling us, me and the other guys, he was telling us that they got caught fishing in a private property, so they called the cops and the cops called the ICE and, you know, it was him and his girlfriend that had just came two weeks ago from Mexico, from El Salvador. They'd been here for two weeks. Then ICE called them to interview them or whatever. Thirty minutes later he comes back happy as hell. He's like, "Oh, yeah." He's like, "They're going to release me,” and we were like, “What?” He’s like, “Yeah, they just told me that someone that has an Arizona ID can come pick me up and we can leave." Once I heard that I was like, "Well, shit, then I'm about to leave too because shit, I've been here all my life. I've never been arrested for anything, so I'm definitely going to get out. That's not going to be a problem." I was like, “If they're going to let this guy out that has no papers…” I mean, yeah, nobody there had papers, but he's been here for two weeks, and he's not married, has no kids here, you know what I mean. I'm definitely going to get out. When it came time toward the end of getting to me, they pulled me out and they're like, "Well, you've been detained for being here illegally, so we're going to hold you here until we get enough people, and then we're going to tell you where we're going to send you to. Either it's going to be the Eloy detention center or La Palma." So, I'm like, "Wait. What do you mean you can't let me go?" I was like, "I can call my wife to come to pick me up. She's a citizen." They're like, "No." I’m like, "What do you mean no?" I was like, "What do you mean no?" I was like, "You guys are releasing this guy." I was like, "I'm sorry but this guy, he's been here for two weeks, and you guys are releasing him to someone that has an ID? An ID from here?" I was like, "I've been here all my life. I'm married to a citizen. I have two kids here. You guys can't release me? You're taking me in?" I was like, "What kind of shit is that?" He's like, "Well, your case is different." I was like, "How is it different?" "Because �you're here illegally." I said, "Well, isn't he as well?" He was shocked that I was back talking to him, so he was like, "You know what? Go back into the room." He's like, "We'll call you in a little bit." I was like, "Dude, what the fuck? Why this whole discrimination shit?" It’s just whenever they want to give somebody a break. It's like they just do what they want pretty much. After that when I went back into my cell, in the room, 30 minutes later he comes back. He's like, "My boss, I don't know why but he's saying he's going to give you a bond of $2,500." I'm like, "Okay." Once I heard that, that's when I called my wife and I told her "Hey, this is what's going to happen." They do what they want. Pretty much, it's what they want and that's how it is. That's one thing that I noticed is that ICE people, if they feel you're a threat to them, they're going to treat you like shit. I don't know, that's just how it is. I guess they don't go, how I see it, they don't go by the rules or how it should be, they just do whatever they want. They release whoever they want. They'd be nice to people, whoever they want. It's just like you can't really say nothing to these people, because once you're in their custody, they can do whatever the hell they want with you. They don't really care. Daniel: Yeah, you know, we’ve talked to a lot of different people in different places about the conditions at Eloy and La Palma. Sometimes they describe hostile treatment from the guards. Sometimes they've described inedible food and inhumane lock up, lockdowns, and extended periods of time without access to sunshine and even solitary confinement and things like that. You said generally they treat you like shit. So, what were the most striking or memorable things you witnessed as far as the conditions at the detention centers? Rodrigo: The treatment, you're talking about the guards, the guards there. You have different guards. You got from racist guards to okay guards. It just depends. I'm talking about, you have probably less than a handful of guards that are there to do their job and actually respect their job, but the rest, the majority, like 70%, 80% of the guards there they're like racist, man. They don't care about who’s there. They'll talk shit to you. They'll cuss at you. One of the guards actually went into the cells and fought one of the detainees there. I guess the detainee had told him something and the guard told him, "Dude, don't fucking talk to me, bro, I'm not here to fucking babysit you." I'm watching this whole shit and the next thing you know, the guard's like, "What? You got a fucking problem? Let’s take it into your fucking cell." I was like, dude, is this guy really about to do that shit right now? So, he goes into the cell and fights the fucking detainee, he chokes him out and he puts him to sleep, and he walks out. I'm like, “Did this shit just really happen?” Normally guards are not allowed to go into your cell if you're inside. If you're in the cell, they're not allowed to go in there. The only time they go in there is when they do an inspection. You have to be out of the cell for them to go in there. Yeah, he went in there and he got into it with the detainee, he choked him out, put him to sleep, and he just walked out like nothing happened. Just talking shit. �The other COs, like I said, there was a couple, there's a lady there, she was super racist. She would tell people, "Why are you even here?" Because they would complain about the food or maybe simple little stuff and this lady would tell them, "Why are you here? You should go back to your country. You shouldn't even be here. Why are you even trying to come over here? This is not your country, your country's over there. I'm going to make sure you guys get deported. I'm going to give you guys write-ups." It was funny to me because she would talk to these guys in English and these guys would just smile thinking she was saying something nice to them. I'm like, “Dude, they're not understanding what you're saying.” She was like, "Oh, can you translate?" I was like, “No, I'm not going to translate! For what?” I was like, “They think you're saying something nice or something, because they're just smiling at you out of kindness, but they don't know that you’re disrespecting them." She was like, "Well, I don't care. They shouldn't be here. They should be in their country. This is America. If you don't even speak English, why are you here?" It’s just crazy stuff. When they would give out lunch, because I think it was during the pandemic with the whole Coronavirus, they were giving us sack lunches. The guards would pass out the food. So, the guards, you could tell what people they didn't like because they would literally throw their lunch bags to them instead of handing it to their hand. They would throw their lunches in their room. The bags would break and all the fruit or whatever was in the bag would fucking just scatter everywhere in the room. And these guys can't say nothing. I mean, they couldn't say nothing, because who are they going to run to? The guards, they just had the upper hand on everything. No matter if the detainee was trying to make a report or say something about a guard, they would have to make a report, write it down, and the guard would have to take it, and when his shift is over, he would have to turn it into the office. Those letters and those reports would never end up getting to the office because once that CO left, he would rip them, throw them in the trash, and he would leave. Those letters or whatever that people were complaining to them about, they would never get to them. One thing like I told you before, one thing about me is that I got to this high rank with these officers and even the captains, even the warden because of the fact that I speak English, and that I'm a cool person and I talk to them, and it came to a point where COs would tell me things. They would tell me things, personal things about what was going on with other COs. There was a CO that had a relationship with one of the detainees inside. That was something that people don't know, it was just all kinds of crazy stuff, and like I said, COs there, they have no respect at all. People really would try to mind their own business and not try talk to COs, or anything like that because COs, they’re just there for a paycheck. They're not there to do their job. They're just there for a paycheck, they don't care. You go ask them a question and they'll tell you, "What do you want?" They'll be like, "Oh, can you help me with this?" Or they’d �have me translate, "Oh, he wants to know if you can read what it says there because they don't understand." "Oh, that's not my job–my job is to sit here and watch you and babysit you punks." That's one of the ones that I clearly remember what he said. He said, "I am just here to babysit all you punks, that's it. I'm not here to help you guys read nothing." I mean it was just crazy. Daniel: Yeah, I've heard a lot of stories like that. We were interested also in hearing about how it went down with COVID-19, the outbreak, and the news trickling in that there was an infectious disease, and efforts to protect yourselves. And also, what did the detention center do or not do about it? I know that there was a protest, some efforts from within, people at Eloy or La Palma trying to raise awareness and stuff. What was it like when COVID-19 got into the detention centers? Rodrigo: Yeah, again, I honestly thought that was my last days living, because these people didn't care. They didn't really care about, you had people die, literally not getting out of their beds, not waking up. The only thing they'd be like was, "Oh, well, we'll get to you later because we have so many people out here,” or “Here's some ibuprofen, take that." That was everything, a cure for them. I get it. I understand they can’t give you anything more than ibuprofen because you can´t have narcotics and stuff like that. But I mean every solution for them is ibuprofen. You break a leg, ibuprofen. You get sick or you get some disease, it's ibuprofen. That's all they give you. They had us locked up. They never let us out for anything. Shower once, probably once every two, three days, and the fact that they were understaffed as well. There were so many, there was at least three or four people that ended up going, the ambulance had to literally go in and take these people out of there because they weren't being helped. People were banging on the doors because their cellies were in shock or they couldn't breathe or they were having problems breathing or chest pains or something. Literally you couldn't hear or see anybody. We were just like animals. We were just locked in there. COs weren't even in the pod because they were out running, looking at other pods. When that hit me, like I said, I didn't think I was going to live. My cellie was worried. He kept telling them I wasn't able to move. I wasn't able to get out of bed. I was literally about to tell my cellie, "Hey, just make a letter to my mom and just tell her that I love her,” because I couldn't get up. I wasn't able to breathe. I was having really hard pains. I mean, at the time, yeah, at the time when that happened, when it first came out, I was super overweight. Especially for a lot of people that are overweight, if you get that, if it hits you, a lot of people don't make it. Even a guard from there, he died from it and he was overweight. I told the nurses, "Dude, I can't breathe." I really couldn't. It was my cellie that did everything. He would bang on the door just to get a COs attention to come to my help, like to come help me, because I wasn't able to do nothing. I told him like, “Dude, I can't breathe, bro. If I try to get up, my body hurts. I can't smell or taste anything." I didn't eat for almost a week and a half and that was making things worse. It took about almost three �weeks for a nurse to come see me. I was literally pale as hell. My lips were white and my cellie was the one that was keeping an eye on me pretty much, and he was a younger dude, he was like 18. That's when the nurse came in and she's like, "Oh my God, are you okay?" Now I laugh at it like, okay, you see me now dude, I'm laying in the bed. I look like one of those fucking dogs in Mexico, they're freaking in the rancho just about to die with a fly in their freaking eye, just buzzing around. That's what I looked like. And she's gonna ask me, “Are you okay?” Dude, come on, you guys should be better than that. They gave me one of the machines, like a respirator type of thing. That's what they did. Daniel: Wait, did they give you oxygen or did they intubate you? Rodrigo: No, it was a machine where I think it was like an oxygen tank, I think. Because it went through my nose and shit. Yeah, literally, when they saw me almost dead that's when they paid attention to me. They took me into the room, and they gave me the IV, I think. I think that's what it was, the drip shit. For a second, you know, it felt like they were kind of paying attention to me. They had me in a room by the nurse, they have rooms to keep people in there. They had me in there for a while. Out of a lot of people it was just only a handful who got helped. Like I said, a lot of people the ambulance came in. Almost every three days I would see an ambulance through the window coming to pick somebody up because either they were fainting or they couldn't move or they couldn't even do nothing. They really weren't doing a lot in there. If you're sick, if you got the worst of it, you got the worst of it. If you were lucky enough to even get helped by a nurse, you were lucky, but if not, then you would have to do that shit on your own. That's what we had to go through. The whole COVID thing hit people different because my cellie had COVID, but he was up and running like nothing. He only had a minor headache, that's what he had told me, but he was running up and down, exercising, but I was laying in my bed, just freaking couldn't even move. There was other people, our neighbors too, next door, one of the guys had to go to the hospital because nobody attended him. It took his cellie to almost break the door down and get attention of one of the COs. He kept telling them, "Dude, I've been banging on this freaking door for two hours.” He’s like, “My cellie’s dying. He doesn't respond." That's when they had an emergency call and they brought the nurse, whatever, and then they couldn't really, I guess, I don't know what happened. I couldn't really hear but the next thing you know, here comes the ambulance coming up, picking him up and taking him away. It was hell in there, honestly. Daniel: Yeah, we had some clients that got hospitalized and it sounds like it was even beyond medical neglect. There was just the stress and the mental health impact of being kind of sitting ducks in crowded pods during an infectious disease outbreak. It had people really stressed, had people really depressed. Also, did it impact people being locked down, being unable to go outside, being unable to go to the cafeteria, eating the same food every day? And also, did they not give you guys masks and stuff like that? Or how did that impact… �Rodrigo: No, they didn't give us anything. It was after, because they had tested us for the COVID, but it was pretty much after everybody had it already or everybody was going through everything already that they gave us the masks. Why are you guys giving us this all late now? It's too late now, we all have it. Everybody's fucking dying over here and you guys are giving us masks now? You guys should have thought about that before we had it. People were speaking up, don't get me wrong. The warden would actually go–I remember in January, the warden would come and talk to us and he would be like, "Oh, just to let you guys know, you guys need to be careful because we have this disease called COVID, and it's a disease that’s like a flu, but you can transfer it by hugging or shaking hands and stuff like that." People would say, "Hey, why don't you guys give us masks?" That would prevent it. And it was just something that never happened. It never happened. He would be like, "Oh yeah, yeah. We could do that. I'll get into it." And did it ever happen? No, it never did. Never did that happen. After everybody was sick, after everybody had COVID, after everybody was in and out of the hospital, that's when they brought in the mask and everybody started masking and it was mandatory to wear a mask. At the time, that's when people were fighting. They're like “What's the point of having it now if everybody had it already?” Yeah, at the time that they gave us the masks, they… Daniel: Did you have to stay in your cells? I know that the lockdowns were really hard. Is that something that happened? Rodrigo: Oh, yeah. People were going crazy. I mean, people are already crazy as it is just by staying inside the pods. We were locked in on a regular day before the COVID. In one day, we would be locked in our rooms for two hours for countdown. We would have two countdowns. Throughout the whole day, you'd be like, two hours, and then from there we'd be free, going out. We'd have our hours to go to the yard and we would have the hour. So, with the whole COVID, it was lockdown, nobody comes out. You're talking about, you're locked in your cell for 24/7, you're not coming out for nothing. People were going nuts. Imagine being locked into a four-by-six, four-by-ten cell with just one person. You don't have nothing to do. Nothing. You can't do shit. You go nuts and you have people banging on doors. You got people yelling, you can't sleep. It was just a razz. You can't do anything. If you don't have a strong mentality at the time, you're going crazy. Luckily for me, like I said, I had a little bit of extra care with the guards that I talked to. They brought me a deck of cards, they actually gave me a deck of cards. When I was able to get better, before I got worse, we would just sit there and just play cards all night. Cards. When I was asleep or something and he was awake, he would try to build up a house with the cards. Everything, it was just lock down 24/7, we never got out. Throughout the whole COVID-19, we never got out the cells. Never did. 24 hours. We got fed in there and that's it. We don't get out the cells or nothing, it was hard. Just thinking about it right now, it's just giving me a freaking flashback but yeah man, it was tough. It was tough. 24 hours, can't go out. Like I said, they let you out for showers once every three days. There was one guard for four pods because they were understaffed, because the COs were getting �COVID-19 too, so a lot of people weren't showing up, so they were understaffed. It was just hell in there. It was hell. It was. Daniel: I know that people were not able to get visitors after the pandemic, or were they still just doing phone calls, right? Rodrigo: Yeah, it was just phone calls. Daniel: I heard there was only like half an hour that you had to make calls, take a shower? Rodrigo: Yeah, either you’d take a shower for 30 minutes, you had to split those two together. You had 30 minutes and that's it. The time that you were able to take a shower, you got 30 minutes, so you got 15 minutes to take a shower, and you got 15 minutes of phone time. Even at that, with 15 minutes, you can't really do much talking to your family. You got so much going on, 15 minutes is not even enough. By the time you were actually calling, by the time you get the machine and all that, so it can call your family, and for them, “Oh you have to press one,” and by the time you actually get them to answer you only got two, three minutes left. People were getting upset with that, they were like, "Can you give us more time? We have no time to talk to our family or let them know what's going on." My mom thought that something was happening because I was never getting a phone call. It was either, I had to take my shower, and I have to take the shower and get all dressed. Like I said, at the time I couldn't really do a lot because I was already–I couldn't breathe. I was upstairs, so even going upstairs was killing me. I couldn't even breathe, my cellie helped me up, to climb the stairs because it was just crazy. It was insane. Daniel: I know that you and I talked a little bit about your situation with your family, with your son and your wife. I think you said you guys broke up while you were there, or she didn't want to bring your son to see you there. How was it also with your broader family, like your mom? Were people really worried about you and concerned during COVID and just generally, while you were detained? Rodrigo: Yeah, my mom, especially my mom. Because when I was talking to Lisa, she would talk to my mom and would let her know. Daniel: This is the Florence Project legal assistant, right? Rodrigo: Yes. She would tell my mom, and there was times, like I said, where we couldn't even call. There are days that we couldn't even call or we'd go almost a week without having a phone call. So, my mom was worried, and when she told my mom that I had COVID, my mom thought the worst. My mom was worried, she really wanted to know more about what's going on with me but, like I said, it was just hard to know. It was hard to know about what's going on inside because nobody can call, and the time you call, you don't have time to talk about anything else but what's going on with that person. Even at that time I was calling, I wasn't talking to my son's mom because she had changed her number. She pretty much at the time, she didn't care. She really didn't care �about me. I would say, when she took the money from me, that's when I stopped talking to her. She changed her number, so I wasn't able to talk to her. What's sad about it is that the one that was more worried about it was my daughter's mom. She was the one that was telling my mom, because her and my mom, they still talk to each other and she was the one that was even more worried about me, like, "What's going on with him?" At the end, my last few months of me being there, she would write me and send me letters, and we would send letters to each other but most of all it was my mom. She was the one that was more worried about what was going on in there with me. They were super worried. Like I said, my mom was thinking the worst of it because I would never call her, or the times that I would, it would be like five seconds and I would tell her, "Mom, hey, I'm okay, don't worry about me," and then that's it, I would hang up. Daniel: Did you receive visits from your mom before the pandemic or anyone else? Rodrigo: No, nobody ever went to see me. It was pretty much, I was on my own. It was just me. Daniel: I just have one more question that I will save for the end. Susan or Arnoldo, do you have any questions, or David? Arnoldo: Oh, no, I don't have any. This is Arnoldo by the way. Susan: This is Susan, can you hear me? Daniel: Yeah. Susan: Ok, I wasn't sure I was coming through. I don't have a question either, but I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story with us. Rodrigo: Oh, no problem. Daniel: Yeah, I would love to hear, to end it on a happier note, what it was like the day you got out, to exit that building, and how you felt about finally regaining your freedom? Rodrigo: Yeah, it was, I can say it was the best. I could say that was the best feeling ever. I never knew how long I was going to be there. Being there for that long, it seemed endless. And coming out, and walking out that building, even though I was out in handcuffs still, they still handcuffed me all the way to where they dropped me off. I was handcuffed, but just that feeling of knowing that I was coming home, it was just the most excitement that I've ever had. I would say it was like winning the freaking lottery. It was just amazing. They dropped me off at the greyhound and my mom lived literally four miles from there. My mom told me, she's like, "When you get out, call me, no matter what time it is, so your brother can go �pick you up." I was just so happy that I wanted to walk. I literally walked all the way to my mom's house because I was just so happy to be free. I was so happy. One thing is that before I went in, I smoked cigarettes. I used to smoke a lot of cigarettes. For the time that I was in there, I didn't smoke cigarettes, they don't let you smoke in there. My first thing was, man, the moment I get out, I'm going to smoke me a cigarette. The time that I worked in there, I made money, because I was working in there. I was working, so I had like 20 bucks. Daniel: What was your job? Rodrigo: I did everything in there. I worked from being in the kitchen to the rec yard to pretty much everything that they had to offer. I used to go work on the night shift polishing the floors, buffing and waxing, cleaning offices and stuff like that for the ICE people. So, I was like, man, I walked to a Circle K, and I bought me a pack of cigarettes. So, I'm thinking, I'm going to enjoy this cigarette and just walk home, but the minute I lit that cigarette, it tasted so nasty, it was just like that was my first time smoking a cigarette. It was just so disgusting that I was like, "Dude, it doesn't taste good," but I did not notice because of those years that I'd been in there, I just blocked that habit. I was like, "Well, why am I going to keep this?" I actually just gave the cigarette pack that I had just bought to a bum, I was like, "Here man, keep ‘em." He was like, "Are you sure?" and I was like, "Dude, just go ahead, God bless you," and I went on my way and I was just so happy to be walking. I was so happy to walk home, to be free, to see the lights, the cars, it was like a dream and I was like, "Man, I hope this is not a dream. I hope this is not a dream." I was just so happy just to be out. I had six bags that I was carrying because all of the stuff from in there, my books, my papers, and so many stuff that I had. But yeah, it was the most amazing feeling. It was a feeling that you can't even describe. It was amazing. To this day, I thank God that I'm here still. Every time I wake up, I still have that little bit of that excitement to be out here, because everything that I went through, it was just so much traumatic, and something that I'm never going to forget. It was tough and it was painful. Just being out here every day it just gives me that, “God, I'm so happy to be out here right now,” and being out here, it just keeps me going. It keeps me being who I am today. Daniel: Yeah, you're doing really well now. Rodrigo: Yeah, I am. Daniel: I guess, just real quick, we just want to make sure we have your permission, of course, to use this interview for our project. The Detained Project. Rodrigo: Mmhmm. Daniel: Separately, I wanted to get your permission for this Florence Project thing, and I'll see you tomorrow and just bring a form for that. That's really beautiful, I love hearing �that reflection on walking home. Did they drop you off at the Greyhound station and you walked home from there? Rodrigo: Yeah, there was me and four other people, four guys and three girls that they were picking us from Florence–from La Palma. They just dropped us there. They just drop you off, like that's it. They don't tell you where you are or how to get to Tucson. It was a lot of people that had never been to Phoenix, they don't know nothing. There was this one girl that I did help out, though, because she didn't know what she was doing or where to go. She needed to buy a ticket to a plane to go to Miami or something, but yeah, once I got out, I was like, "You know what? I'm walking." It was just that excitement, to be out and free. I didn't care if I had to walk to Tucson, I was just so happy to be out. It was just an amazing feeling to be out, to enjoy the weather and the people and everything. I literally walked home to my mom's. Daniel: When was that again? Rodrigo: Huh? Daniel: When was that, that you were released? Rodrigo: I would say it was in either October or November, one of those two. Daniel: Pretty recently. It's actually a good time of year to walk around in Phoenix. Rodrigo: What's that? Daniel: That's a good time of year to walk around in Phoenix. Rodrigo: Yeah, I can say the weather was awesome, and it was at nighttime too, it was probably 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. Daniel: Woah, really? Rodrigo: Yes. It was just… Daniel: Did you see the sunrise while you were walking, or did you get home before that? Rodrigo: No, I got home before. I got home, it took me maybe 30 to 40 minutes to get home. It was a beautiful sight, because right there where my mom lives you can see the whole downtown Phoenix, the whole buildings and stuff. I just took a moment, and I just stared at the downtown and took a deep breath and thanked God that he gave me a second chance to be here. Daniel: I talked to one of your former attorneys, Camilo and he was telling me that the way they were able to get you your Adjustment of Status, so you're able to become a Legal Permanent Resident was by getting permission through your dad's application for it and including you on that. I thought that was interesting because there was this father- �son theme to our talk before, about how you really wanted to get back to your son and to see him again. You talked a lot about losing your dad, how that impacted you a lot and started some of the problems that you ended up having. And we ended up being able to use your father as a way to get you out of detention, to avoid deportation. There was this interesting father-son theme to the whole case in the end. Rodrigo: Yeah, that was a big part too, I would say that. When he was alive, he was trying to fix our family with my mom and my brothers, but then when he passed away, that's when they froze the whole process of that. That kind of helped us too. The relationship with my dad, man, it was amazing. It was like me and [my son]. Like I told you, I was my dad's chicle. I was always with my dad. He taught me everything, everything that I know now, from how to feed a female, to cars, to the person I am today, it's all my dad. This was my dad. I reflect my dad. Daniel: The chicle thing is a funny inside joke. What was the meaning of that again? Rodrigo: The chicle is like when you step on a gum. It's stuck with you. No matter where you go it's with you. That's how it is. It's just saying, “Oh, nuestro chicle,” he's stuck to you, so wherever you go, he wants to be there with you. That's what my mom says. "Allí está tu chicle," here’s your gum, it's stuck to you. That's how it is and that's how my dad was, too. Every time my dad went out, I would always be with him. Even to work, I remember, I'd go to landscaping with him. Cars, me and him built a car together. That's how me and [my son] is. Now, I'm back in his life and now he doesn't even want to go home anymore. Sometimes when I tell him, "OK it's time to go home," he's like, "I don't want to go to my mom’s house, I want to stay here with you." It's just a big, my son is everything to me, he's the reason I'm here. He's the reason I kept myself together and fought for what I have now, because of him. Daniel: It was your dad, did your dad migrate with your mom from Mexico or did they meet? Rodrigo: No, they both came from Mexico. Daniel: Together? Rodrigo: Yeah, they lived in Juárez, in Chihuahua. Daniel: Do you know why they came? Rodrigo: Yeah, they came, I believe, for a better life. But there's a big twist to this whole thing and I will explain to you tomorrow when I see you. It's kind of going to blow your mind. It's something that, to this day I don't believe it, but it's what I've been told by my sisters. But yeah, they came from over there and they brought me and my brothers, we came here. Then ever since, we've been living here. And I was, what, three years old? �Daniel: Wow. Rodrigo: From there I never left, never looked back. I've lived here all my life. Went to school. Daniel: Yeah, you did, and you said you were a pretty good football player, huh? Rodrigo: Yeah, I was. I got three full scholarships for–it was Ohio state, NAU, and ASU. Daniel: What's NAU again? Rodrigo: NAU, that would be… Daniel: in Arizona? Rodrigo: Yeah Daniel: Well maybe tomorrow you could show me the football pictures. Do you have any still? Rodrigo: Yeah, I have the high school pictures. Daniel: Yeah, we can include that in our story. Rodrigo: Yes, I'll definitely do that. Actually, yeah, I'll be able to get some pictures. I think I have like a full album there, like of my dad and all that stuff too. Daniel: Awesome. Thank you. I'll let you go then; I've taken a lot of your time already. Thanks again for talking to us and I'll see you tomorrow at 1:00, okay? � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Noncitizen detention centers Detention of persons--Law and legislation Deportation--Law and legislation Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021 - 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC 4.0 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH Has Format A related resource that is substantially the same as the pre-existing described resource, but in another format. .wav Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Florence United States – Arizona – Pinal County – Eloy United States – Arizona – Pinal County – La Palma United States – Arizona – Pima County Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. DETAINED OH Narrators Description An account of the resource “DETAINED: Voices from the Migrant Incarceration System” is an oral history project archiving the narratives of asylum seekers formerly incarcerated in Arizona. Interviews were conducted and recorded over the phone with formerly detained people across the U. S. and Latin America who had received support from the Florence Project during their detainment. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Language A language of the resource English Spanish Audience A class of entity for whom the resource is intended or useful. The oral history archive is for those who have experienced detainment and those in their communities (such as friends and family members). Other audiences include activists, students, researchers, policy-makers, artists, writers, and the general public. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in oral history interviews with persons (narrators) having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History with Rodrigo Description An account of the resource In this interview, Rodrigo shares the hardships of ICE detention as a father who grew up in Phoenix and missed 1.5 years of his young son's childhood. He overcame addiction in detention after being arrested for shoplifting during a time of depression and grief. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Subject The topic of the resource COVID-19 Pandemic, 2020- Drug addiction Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona Arizona--Phoenix Arizona--Eloy New York (State) Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context DTD_OH_001 https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/02621d0f3881fe281386adaa0fa0da6f.pdf 16b475bf33ae9f375dec9a8617710cb8 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Project Florence" Card Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Florence Project Client Art Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 - 2021 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Description An account of the resource This art was lent to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP) by employees and community members who had been gifted it by clients, friends and family members who were detained. The artists are adults and children who were in immigration detention in Arizona, facing deportation. The adults were detained in ICE detention centers in Florence and Eloy, Arizona, and the children were detained in ORR shelters for unaccompanied immigrant children in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Members of the Florence Project’s Development Team collected the art for a client art show in 2019. Immigration detention is deeply isolating, and most members of the community aren’t aware that there are detention centers for both adults and children right in their backyards. As part of the Florence Project’s ongoing effort to shed light on the harms caused by these systems, the organization staged a client art show, to share the tremendous talent of many of the people that they serve. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-ND Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Florence Project Clients Language A language of the resource English Spanish Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Project Florence" Card Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona art Florence Project migrant art https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/0ae78999dd2be34315e874c1f2d3b1f0.pdf 60501c54cc0a7ec3265e0dbb265934c1 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Project Florence" Card 2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Florence Project Client Art Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 - 2021 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Description An account of the resource This art was lent to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP) by employees and community members who had been gifted it by clients, friends and family members who were detained. The artists are adults and children who were in immigration detention in Arizona, facing deportation. The adults were detained in ICE detention centers in Florence and Eloy, Arizona, and the children were detained in ORR shelters for unaccompanied immigrant children in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Members of the Florence Project’s Development Team collected the art for a client art show in 2019. Immigration detention is deeply isolating, and most members of the community aren’t aware that there are detention centers for both adults and children right in their backyards. As part of the Florence Project’s ongoing effort to shed light on the harms caused by these systems, the organization staged a client art show, to share the tremendous talent of many of the people that they serve. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-ND Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Florence Project Clients Language A language of the resource English Spanish Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Project Florence" Card 2 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona art Florence Project migrant art https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/1c7fb3a0aa4fb46363cc66bdac39fec6.jpg 88d6e040006b1c5e50308dc4340cea71 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bandana Art Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Florence Project Client Art Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 - 2021 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Description An account of the resource This art was lent to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP) by employees and community members who had been gifted it by clients, friends and family members who were detained. The artists are adults and children who were in immigration detention in Arizona, facing deportation. The adults were detained in ICE detention centers in Florence and Eloy, Arizona, and the children were detained in ORR shelters for unaccompanied immigrant children in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Members of the Florence Project’s Development Team collected the art for a client art show in 2019. Immigration detention is deeply isolating, and most members of the community aren’t aware that there are detention centers for both adults and children right in their backyards. As part of the Florence Project’s ongoing effort to shed light on the harms caused by these systems, the organization staged a client art show, to share the tremendous talent of many of the people that they serve. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-ND Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Florence Project Clients Language A language of the resource English Spanish Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dog & woman on bandana.jpg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona art Florence Project migrant art https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/a0d972ec7d9ceabd0e0cc653eb8edc03.jpg 3ae5b9ab0033561ba992d5d25b0c7189 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Florence Project Client Art Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 - 2021 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Description An account of the resource This art was lent to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP) by employees and community members who had been gifted it by clients, friends and family members who were detained. The artists are adults and children who were in immigration detention in Arizona, facing deportation. The adults were detained in ICE detention centers in Florence and Eloy, Arizona, and the children were detained in ORR shelters for unaccompanied immigrant children in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Members of the Florence Project’s Development Team collected the art for a client art show in 2019. Immigration detention is deeply isolating, and most members of the community aren’t aware that there are detention centers for both adults and children right in their backyards. As part of the Florence Project’s ongoing effort to shed light on the harms caused by these systems, the organization staged a client art show, to share the tremendous talent of many of the people that they serve. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-ND Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Florence Project Clients Language A language of the resource English Spanish Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Detention Center Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona art Florence Project migrant art https://detained.digitalscholarship.library.arizona.edu/files/original/7a8ed9804f6a5e7603d55d7cefbce25e.jpg 48d79bbc15672dfe607f56a79282acb4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Florence Project Client Art Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 - 2021 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpeg application/pdf Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Description An account of the resource This art was lent to the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP) by employees and community members who had been gifted it by clients, friends and family members who were detained. The artists are adults and children who were in immigration detention in Arizona, facing deportation. The adults were detained in ICE detention centers in Florence and Eloy, Arizona, and the children were detained in ORR shelters for unaccompanied immigrant children in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. Members of the Florence Project’s Development Team collected the art for a client art show in 2019. Immigration detention is deeply isolating, and most members of the community aren’t aware that there are detention centers for both adults and children right in their backyards. As part of the Florence Project’s ongoing effort to shed light on the harms caused by these systems, the organization staged a client art show, to share the tremendous talent of many of the people that they serve. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource CC BY-NC-ND Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Eloy United States -- Arizona -- Pinal County -- Florence Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project Florence Project Clients Language A language of the resource English Spanish Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cell Bird's Eye View Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource DETAINED Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DETAINED Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States -- Arizona art Florence Project migrant art